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Laza MMA
Jun 11, 2008, 01:36 PM
Im training MMA for more than a year, i got very good hand speed but i want more, and i have no punching power.So can somebody please tell me whats the best bodyweight exercise for that, speed and power.

TheMasterKey
Jun 11, 2008, 03:51 PM
I would do some type of explosive pushups like clap pushups, also practice throwing punches while holding weights.

I've been boxing for about a year also, and I find the more I train, the faster/harder my punches get. I guess it takes time.

Good luck.

Raja
Jun 11, 2008, 03:54 PM
Your body has to go into the punches. Do trunk twisters while pivoting on the balls of your feet. Even helped with my muay thai kicks.

olinek
Jun 11, 2008, 05:47 PM
Learn how to punch. If you're technique is good, you should be able to throw powerful punches without exercising at all. Our bodies are just built in a badass way like that.

Laza MMA
Jun 11, 2008, 06:05 PM
I allready know how to punch,i even throw very good combinations,but for example i keep landing perfect shots to the chin but my oponents rarely go down, they are always hurt, but rarely down

timfortehwin
Jun 11, 2008, 06:15 PM
Holding a weight while practising actually slows you down.. it doesn't make any sense.

I know the argument is 'but my body adjusts to using the weight so when i don't use this weight i'm therefore faster' this isn't the case, because you're sub-consciously keeping an eye out for the weight, and you're having to grip it too.

Just keep punching.

Dominator350
Jun 11, 2008, 06:32 PM
to utilize power from the core into your fist, one arm pushups rule all. Especially on your knuckles.

TheMasterKey
Jun 11, 2008, 06:59 PM
Holding a weight while practising actually slows you down.. it doesn't make any sense.

I know the argument is 'but my body adjusts to using the weight so when i don't use this weight i'm therefore faster' this isn't the case, because you're sub-consciously keeping an eye out for the weight, and you're having to grip it too.

Just keep punching.

Yes, while you are holding the weight, your punches will be slower. But, the next round when you aren't holding the weights anymore, your fists will feel light as feathers. Are you saying this isn't beneficial?

Dave.cyco
Jun 11, 2008, 08:34 PM
Definitely DON'T hold weights while you throw punches for at least 2 reasons:

1. You have to force yourself to decelerate the punch or you could really hurt your elbows and shoulders.

2. This forced deceleration will condition you to do the same thing when you punch without weight, slowing you down, as Tim said.


That being said, I see no problem holding tiny little weights that are the same (or a tiny bit heavier) than the gloves you are going to wear in the ring.

If you really want to train explosiveness, power and endurance all at the same time, hold tiny little weights, and put an elastic resistance band behind your back and under your armpits, holding one end in each hand.

Now you will find that this will strengthen you guard, punching speed, power and explosiveness. make sure you punch high, and keep your hands higher than you would in the ring, so that you are used to it and when you fatigue, your hands will be comfortable at the normal level.

Even this method has a drawback, however small. When you punch, you want to retract it as quickly as possible, and the elastic band actually kind of helps you in that regard. My suggestion? Get into your fighting stance and work on explosive one armed pulls as well.

olinek
Jun 12, 2008, 12:08 AM
I allready know how to punch,i even throw very good combinations,but for example i keep landing perfect shots to the chin but my oponents rarely go down, they are always hurt, but rarely down

Ok sorry. If they are getting hurt from your punches it means you are on the right track (my apologies).

Dunno if you have seen it but check out Ross Enamait's video called Hardcore Training. He shows several exercises which will strengthen your rotational strength which is the most important thing in a punch.

wulfsun
Jun 12, 2008, 01:14 AM
This question is for Dave cyco. :"Don't hold weights when throwing punches". Aren't you a KB users? Please explain yourself in a little more detail?

Laza MMA
Jun 12, 2008, 10:54 AM
Thank you guys

emperor zombie
Jun 12, 2008, 10:56 AM
get a heavy bag and throw about 3000 punches a day. start with 100 jabs then 100 1,2 combos then 100 1,2,3 combos, so on so forth. once your form and technique are down, pick a punch during a combo, say the 3 in the 1-2-3, which is the left hook, and blast the bag. there should be no exrtra wind up in the combo, just more speed and body torque. return that hand back fast as well. the power comes from body torque and aligning the bones properly. also learn to 'drop' your body into a punch aka 'digging your heels in' it took me about a year to get all this down so, dont worry if it doesnt come overnight. i wouldnt bother with dumbells at least yet. use 16oz gloves as well.

TheMasterKey
Jun 13, 2008, 11:29 AM
Your body has to go into the punches. Do trunk twisters while pivoting on the balls of your feet. Even helped with my muay thai kicks.

Is this what exercise you mean?


http://www.ptonthenet.com/exerciseprint.aspx?ExerciseID=2374

olinek
Jun 13, 2008, 02:23 PM
Also try ross's Isometric Punches. I haven't done really worked on them much but have heard people have seen great results with them.

Basically you just hold an isometric punch at different positions against the whole. You are supposed to work on improving muscle tension acceleration. So even though you aren't moving, you still work on firing up your muscles as powerfully as possible.

chokboywonda
Jun 13, 2008, 06:06 PM
Without going too deep...
This is a hard one as every one is different and will be stimulated in different ways from the SAME type of training.
One thing is for sure, that if you are saying you have good technique and good speed then you need strength development. And if you are in a weight class then you will need to develop this strength without added weight gain. You will need to work out which area needs strengthening as it could be a prime mover or any part of your core or inner unit. Once you have stregthened the selected muscle group or are then you would need to intergrate this muscle group with others to form a more functional, specifc movement pattern so the muscles learn to work correctly together, perform the correct jobs at the right times and all fire correctly. Then you may wish to start power and explosive training which will include rotational power as this is the engine for the force used when punching powerfully. You should also without a shadow of a doubt look into strengthening your rotator cuff especially if you are thinking of using light hand weights (but as somebody stated earlier your body will descelerate your limb premerturely in order to escape injury and bands are even worse). But if you do still feel the need to go down this route then always perform contrast sets immediately after to reset your movement pattern.

Dave.cyco
Jun 13, 2008, 06:59 PM
This question is for Dave cyco. :"Don't hold weights when throwing punches". Aren't you a KB users? Please explain yourself in a little more detail?

Kettlbells are a great tool to use for building strength, endurance and power, of course. But punching is a skill. Yes it's a skill you need those attributes for, but you can't train holding heavy weights and expect to duplicate proper ring skills. As I said before, if you are holding weights that are even marginally heavier than your gloves, you are going to have to decelerate your punch sooner than you normally would due to the increased inertial force and momentum of the punch, or risk hyperextending your elbow. You will get used to this over time, and this will ultimately slow down your punches. You can't throw full speed punches holding heavy or even medium weights.

That is why I suggested using resistance bands. If you want to build speed and explosiveness in your punches, then load the resistance in the opposite direction of the punch. You are not punching straight up into the air when you are in the ring, so why would you use resistance that is gravity based, pulling you straight down. A resistance band behind the back and under the armpits will pull your hands down slightly and almost straight back, which is the exact opposite of the trajectory you want to throw in; slightly up and straight ahead.

Again get used to training as though you are fighting a guy who is 6'8", so that when you do fight a taller guy, or when your hands become fatigued and begin to fall, you can still comfortably keep 'em up.

Another problem is that your center of gravity is out of whack when you throw heavily weighted punches. You want to train as closely as possible to ring conditions, and you should be mobile while in the process of doing so. Moving around with weights makes you top heavy and changes your dynamics. The point of training is to make you stronger and build good habits for in the ring, not force you to unlearn faulty movment patterns on the fly.

It still pays to use weights, even heavy ones, but not for the skill (punch) training. Get stronger and build muscle lifting weights, and get faster more powerful punches using the above suggestion, or any other method that makes sense and is not counter intuitive.

And yes russian twists are supposed to be great. Here are some rotational strength ideas that I will be using over the next little while.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nA80YhVM3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6hCPkVWIl0

EvilOne
Jun 13, 2008, 07:12 PM
Use Heavy Gloves, snap yet drive thru your target. I dont kow what to call it but. I take an O-bar stick 1 end in the corner on the floor. Add weight to the top side and grab the bar above the weight. I start with the bar at my shoulder and explosively drive it twards the wall in an upward motion. At the same time you are pivoting your body. Third thing is some people have it, some don't and never will.

chokboywonda
Jun 13, 2008, 07:20 PM
I have used many of the bits of equipment and types of training discussed and after researching the use of bands for training they are not as good as they may seem.
If you take time to understand what is happenning whilst training with bands you will come to the same conclusion.
When you punch as your arm extends the striking tool (the fist) gathers speed and at impact ideally it should be at it's maximum speed.
let's take a look at what happens when punching with a band.
As a band is stretched it obviously becomes longer but also becomes harder to stretch as it legthens slowing the limb down more the closer it gets to the target. The force of the resistance is not the same at the end of the movement as it is at the beginning of the movement and increases. infact it is kind of the opposite of what happens when you throw a fist (light weight) on it's own. when you punch after the initial inertia is over come the fist (weight) gathers speed with the help of momentum in the case of a band it slows you down. this means this type of training will teach your body to do the wrong things at the wrong time and also mess up the recoiling of the fist back to guard as it is assisted by the recoil of the band.

Dave.cyco
Jun 13, 2008, 07:35 PM
I mentioned that in my first post, and I suggested a way to compensate for it, however imperfect.

There is one perfect way to train for boxing or any other combat sport, however, and that is to do it on Jupiter where the gravity is 1000's of times heavier.;)

Fatman
Jun 14, 2008, 08:59 AM
Use Heavy Gloves, snap yet drive thru your target. I dont kow what to call it but. I take an O-bar stick 1 end in the corner on the floor. Add weight to the top side and grab the bar above the weight. I start with the bar at my shoulder and explosively drive it twards the wall in an upward motion. At the same time you are pivoting your body. Third thing is some people have it, some don't and never will.

This is a good exercise. It's featured on Ross Enamait's site, and if he endorses it, then it must be good. Nice suggestion.

chokboywonda
Jun 14, 2008, 09:08 AM
Yes this is a great functional sport specific exercise that would help to generate power if trained correctly.

Raja
Jun 15, 2008, 12:01 AM
TheMasterKey- Yes!! I do that all the time in my Aikido class without the medicine ball.

TheMasterKey
Jun 15, 2008, 12:53 AM
TheMasterKey- Yes!! I do that all the time in my Aikido class without the medicine ball.

Do you hold any weight while doing it? I tried a set of 20 while holding an exercise ball, it seems like a good exercise to incorporate.

Raja
Jun 15, 2008, 12:53 PM
Tried it out this morning with a dumbell, the best my gym has are swiss balls. The hardest part for me is controlling the muscles so you don't over swing. Also did buddy passes with the weight using the same concept but back to back with someone.

EagleScout316
Jun 15, 2008, 02:20 PM
1: The best way to get a stronger punch...is to punch. Got a friend that trains his hands at hitting train cars; wraps his hand in a few layers of cloth and hits a big hunk of steel. When he gets to 100 reps, he takes off a layer of cloth. If you get down to a bare fist doing this, wrap the hands back up and start hitting the edges of a piece of steel.

2: Another good thing to do is get a shelving unit up against a piece of dry wall. Put empty soda cans on top of the shelf. Now, lay some type of mat against the wall so you don't go through the wall when you punch it. When you start punching the wall, the success of training will show as the cans start to bounce up in the air: this is equivalent to training on a 300 lb. bag. Training against deadweight will seriously improve your power, in that you learn to use force not just in throwing out your fist, but withdrawing it. It is this prinicple that the Shaolin Monks of China trained at...of course, how they trained it was a bit different. ;)

Fatman
Jun 15, 2008, 04:43 PM
1: The best way to get a stronger punch...is to punch. Got a friend that trains his hands at hitting train cars; wraps his hand in a few layers of cloth and hits a big hunk of steel. When he gets to 100 reps, he takes off a layer of cloth. If you get down to a bare fist doing this, wrap the hands back up and start hitting the edges of a piece of steel.

2: Another good thing to do is get a shelving unit up against a piece of dry wall. Put empty soda cans on top of the shelf. Now, lay some type of mat against the wall so you don't go through the wall when you punch it. When you start punching the wall, the success of training will show as the cans start to bounce up in the air: this is equivalent to training on a 300 lb. bag. Training against deadweight will seriously improve your power, in that you learn to use force not just in throwing out your fist, but withdrawing it. It is this prinicple that the Shaolin Monks of China trained at...of course, how they trained it was a bit different. ;)

Interesting. I have the Shaolin Secrets book and they mention what you wrote above, plus a host of other stuff. But yes, exposing the body to controlled strikes (or striking with limbs against increasingly hard surfaces) does seem to be a big thing in their training.

EagleScout316
Jun 15, 2008, 05:21 PM
Yes, the Shaolin did do a variety of level punching. I know in the Southern Temple, they had lots of pages of paper that they would strap to trees, and unleash a fury of punches at them. The difference in their training, though, is that they utilize dit da jow, to prevent the nerves around the hitting surfaces from being deadened. And then, most of the masters I've met that train that way will have nothing to do with MMA. But, the Shaolin Secrets Vol. 1 is probably my favorite out of the three out there so far.:grin:

wulfsun
Jun 15, 2008, 09:16 PM
Thank you for your response and explanation to my question Dave cyco.

wulfsun
Jun 20, 2008, 11:57 PM
My question about the kettlebells can be found on this link
www.tacticalathlete.com (http://www.tacticalathlete.com) The Power Behind the Punch and powerseekers kettlebell training which is located in England.

wulfsun
Jun 21, 2008, 03:04 PM
Maybe the question about weights when punching should be changed to "Does using resistance devices strengthen the mechanics of your punch?"

Raja
Jun 23, 2008, 01:53 AM
Post a video of yourself. Someone here can probably point out if its technique or you could really benefit from strength training. Personally I don't know how much of punching is strength. My martial arts instructor who as a moderate build can throw some hard punches when compared to this muscular guy in my class.

AshersUK
Jun 23, 2008, 09:39 PM
Definitely DON'T hold weights while you throw punches for at least 2 reasons:

1. You have to force yourself to decelerate the punch or you could really hurt your elbows and shoulders.

2. This forced deceleration will condition you to do the same thing when you punch without weight, slowing you down, as Tim said.

Not entirely true. Holding weights will increase your speed dramatically. It's not in the slightest different to wearing heavy gloves which a local boxing school does to it's students and he makes you shadow box for 15 minutes straight with heavy arsed gloves.

If you're using weights to shadow box with then we're talking 2kg to start with and when you're proficient with 2kg move up .5 or 1kg at a time. The 'forced deceleration' doesn't exist because it's no different if someone has a very large hand (Like mine)

Journeyman
Jul 05, 2008, 02:06 PM
Problem with weights is that the resistance to your movement is down, if that makes sense. That's why resistance bands are better.

leeb51
Jul 09, 2008, 10:07 PM
to build power from punching you must develop explosive power which can be achieved through plyometrics training ( clap pressups, medicine ball chest throw, shadow boxing with 1kg dumbells). think of this though, from a martial arts view, dont focus on the area you want to punch e.g. the chin, focus on the back of the skull. the reason for this is, if you focus on hitting the target infront of you you will end up slapping it and if you focus on putiing all the power 6 - 8 inches behind the power you will hurt it! try it on a bag and you will hear and feel the difference. a strong punch makes a deep thud like sound while a weak punch makes a high slapping sound. use your elbows as the main pivot in the punch, dont think about swinging your hips or telegraphing, just raise your elbow straight up as fast as you can, the difference in power is unbelievable. also, dont tense up when you punch, keep loose. if you tense up when punching, your body uses some of your punching power to tense the muscles, therefore losing valuable power.

another thing to think about is: if your punches are weak, speed them up and use them as a distraction while you use your feet or knees to fell your oponent.

happy training

Laza MMA
Aug 01, 2008, 12:45 PM
thank you guys, this really helped me, yesterday i knocked 2 guys out :)))

twoblink
Aug 11, 2008, 04:19 AM
I have a really small frame size; but I punch ridiculously hard. Not fast, but I'm the hardest puncher I know of.

History:

I watching this video my friend showed me, it was some professor who was like 5'5" with thick glasses. His Thesis was on Bruce Lee's punch, and the maximization of channeled energy. It was amazing. I never saw someone punch that hard. Super small guy. His helper, was like 6'2" and punched a lot softer.

He claimed to have watched videos of Bruce Lee punching over a few hundred thousand times.

Well, the proof was in the sound of the punching he made. BOOM. It was amazing to me.

He then (very professor like) went to the whiteboard and proceeded to write down why his punches were so effective.

I copied down the physics lesson. I now generate a ridiculous amount of force with a punch. His thesis was on the maximum generation of Force for a punch. Not the most practical, so please keep that in mind.

I punch like he does, with the elbow drawing a huge circular motion, and the fist movement distance very very small. (Like a Chu Chu Train).

I can put up what I learned for you all. I use to have this on my website, but took it down because I never finished all of it.

Given Rotational Acceleration=V^2/R
If I rotate and draw with my elbow, a circle roughly 10" in diameter, but the movement of my fist is roughly 2" or so, I get the "multiplier effect". if the diameter is 10", distance traveled by my elbow is roughly 31" (circumference). Using the wrist as the converter point, it takes tangential rotational force (my elbow movement) and converts it to linear force (my fist).

I'm too lazy to write out the equations again to do the math, but I think I'm able to get a multiplier roughly 5x as far as force. Of course, I lose out in distance, so the punch is considered high torque. So again, not practical for all cases because distance is sacrificed for power.

But I have a friend who's a boxer, 6'8". I punch harder than he does and that amazes him.

If you are looking for the most powerful punch, it will be something like this; a rotational conversion to a linear one, with a big rotational movement, and a small linear movement to gain a multiplier effect. But if you are looking for speed, power, and extension on the punch, that requires a lot more variables. The most important of which I personally believe is what I call "Impulse Sequence". The smoothness of the "chain of commands" to your muscles in the sequence you need them to be.

Hope that helps! So many have asked me, perhaps I will take a vid of me doing the punch, and put it on youtube if you guys want to see it.

chokboywonda
Aug 11, 2008, 05:24 AM
I would love to see this explained on a you tube video. I think I understand where your coming from and immediately I doubted that it would work in a practical situation as using the elbow in this fashion would make the punch telegraphed and easy to see. It does not matter how hard you can punch if your opponent sees it and moves out of the way. But, maybe if you were that good and you trained so that you could switch in and out of that 'physics' punch then you could use it on the end of combinations or when you have stunned your opponent.
I wanna see it professor twoblink get it up on youtube buddy.

Peace

twoblink
Aug 11, 2008, 01:59 PM
I'm going on a short vacation with my wife for 2 days, and it's almost 2am so I'm off to bed.

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=TzdpJ_YsvLs

I've successfully uploaded the video but it says "not finished processing" so I don't know when it will.., it's cheezy and not really good quality, yeah sue me... and since I did this at like midnight at chokboywonda's request, it was me and a cardboard box..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

Read that first.

This is what I call "scientific punching", a punched based on physics and the goal of maximum generation of power at contact point.

I encourage you all to try it with a partner holding a phonebook. Have the partner (preferably bigger than you) hold a phonebook to their chest, and lean on your extended fist with your arms extended. You can try a 1" punch linearly, or try to push them. Then try what I do in the video, which is draw a large circle with your elbow, wrist being the rotational to linear point of conversion, and you will see, regardless how big they are, the amount of torque you generate is not something they can stop.

Total distance of Fist travel is 3~5 inches at most, at Carnivals, I'm able to get the punching machine to hit max 3 times in a row, something I've not seen anybody else including my boxing friend do.

I hope I did a decent enough job in the video of explaining. I need a Madden Whiteboard to draw on to explain it better..

The easiest way I can explain it, is think of it in terms of bolt cutters. If I gave you a bolt and a pair of scissors, you couldn't cut them. But with bolt cutters, the wide side travels about 2feet but the nose travels about 1/2". The torque multiplier effect. Same with the punch, that's all. It's not voodoo, it's just physics. Think of the nose of the bolt cutters as your fist, the handles as your elbow, and the flex joint as your wrist. Like I said before, a 10" diameter circle drawn with your elbow generates 31" of movement of the elbow, but extends your fist only 3". Assuming a 50% efficiency transfer of energy via your wrist, you are still getting 5X the torque multiplication due to 1/10th the distance traveled.

Have fun punching!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Bolt_cutters_animated.gif

Jay Cooper
Aug 13, 2008, 04:48 PM
Thought these vids might prove interesting:

This is the awesome Peter Consterdine and the "double hip" method. This is from Shukokai karate and to be honest Pete can probably KO rhinos with his power.

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=tRqfYwhsQdQ

This is his "partner in crime" the legendary Geoff Thompson, who has slighlty different methods but is equally effective

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=EvEzqysPg2A&feature=related

And finally, everyones favourite mohawked 40 year old and his freaky punching power

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=aqf42bsTXnY

twoblink
Aug 18, 2008, 03:38 AM
I recommend you do some pilates...

"Core Strength" increases the speed at which you do everything.

Roman situps to a great job. I find whenever you have to add "balance" into the mix, i.e. smaller muscles to control stability, you strengthen everything much faster.

Banacek
Sep 04, 2008, 01:42 PM
Im training MMA for more than a year, i got very good hand speed but i want more, and i have no punching power.So can somebody please tell me whats the best bodyweight exercise for that, speed and power.

this might be of some use to you. the medicine ball exercise negates the need for deceleration that was mentioned above.

http://www.rossboxing.com/thegym/thegym25.htm