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Phoenician
Apr 19, 2008, 03:28 AM
hey, are you guys aware of any combat athletes, for example, elite mma competitors that use gymnastics as their strength training?
i just read that t-nation article, which was posted a while back on here i think, about gymnastics.
what specific type of strength wouldnt gymnastics training address? because by the sounds of that article, it creates an athlete that can muster freaky strength from odd positions, and obviously the part about gymnasts on their first attempts with the iron, lifting double their BW on the deadlift, etc etc. do you think it would be too taxing on their bodies, considering the rest of the sport-specific training they have to do?

Fatman
Apr 19, 2008, 09:22 AM
I think that in order to train for gymnastic-type stunts you have to devote a lot of time to perfecting the individual exercises.

Ring muscle-up to handstands and similar tricks take YEARS of consistent practice to master - the fighter needs time off to recover and work on his fight-related skills and conditioning.

The strength in many gymnastic exercises is pretty static - that's also not something a fighter would want.

On the double-BW issue... at their bodyweights, that's like 260 lbs. or less. Most fighters who maintain the same bodyweight as the gymnasts can usually pull more than that.

juggledex
Apr 19, 2008, 11:30 AM
They have rings at the training school my buddies go to here in DC, but it's not something they have to use.

Check this out
http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/7_steps_to_a_balanced_fighter

emperor zombie
Jun 12, 2008, 11:47 AM
gymnast training is great but only some of the stuff is usefull for fighters. i use pseudo planche pushups. its close to doing a bodyweight pushup. if thats not enough tweak the leverage or use band/chains. the main problem with gymnast stuff is its very specialized. they train to be strong in certain events, fighters train to fight. trying to do it all leaves you with little time. hand stand pushups are great but the time spent learning it could probly be better used in the ring for a fighter. coach sommers has articles about that stuff. its usefull but as i said i would work the bag instead of learning the pommel horse, specially at 6'1 and 215lbs- it could only lead to a busted head and laughing friends

gun2020
Oct 06, 2008, 12:42 AM
i agree being a muay thai practitioner id take the one arm pushup over working a static planche. better to go with something that has more variations and is dynamic ...my 2 cents and first post lol

kcee
Oct 06, 2008, 05:15 AM
hey can someone give me a quick guide to static and dynamic, and how it relates to a fighter?? because i do not really understand the concept. any links will be useful too.
thanks

marksmarkou
Nov 05, 2008, 05:15 AM
I must say, each grappling school ive attended nearly always include in the warmup, rolss, cartwheels, flips hand walking etc, to develop agility, body strength and balance. Gymnastic training will help the martial artists most definitly, but more time must always be devoted to developing fighting ability hrough martial arts, not gymnastics.

Journeyman
Nov 05, 2008, 05:51 AM
Short answer-no not really unless you are talking about shaolin monks or something.

dfitz
Nov 05, 2008, 09:43 AM
And as many of the posters said, gymnastics can help you but it is not training for a fight. Training for a combat sport and gymnastics is so totally different.

Gymnastics is great for strength, power, flexibility and agility development. The problem is that most people do not have access to the equipment or the coaching to learn gymnastics properly.

I don't know all of the progressions that the guys went through to become better gymnasts, but the strength that they developed was impressive - jumping one leg squats onto a box, walking l-sits, lever pulls, planches, tumbling, and ring work (iron cross, maltese, lever, planches). Obviously some gymnastics would not carry over well to the combat sports. However, some gymnastics would be a great way to supplement the combat athletes training.

REMsimpson
Nov 24, 2008, 11:59 AM
This topic has become a minor debate between me and a training partner. The genesis for our discussion was:

Shinpan Gusukuma, an Okinawan karate adept of the last century, was of the opinion that a well-developed student should be able to hit with the force of 3 times their own body weight. For simplicity's sake, let's call this Gusukuma's Ideal. Gusukuma was an avid proponent of hitting makiwara (striking posts) etc. He was also recorded as being fond of pinch gripping ceiling rafters and swinging around rooms, and apaprently could do some gymnastic tricks on the bars too. I feel that the link between the striking skill and body weight conditioning is causal. Based on what I have come to undertstand in my training, the two go hand in hand- the dynamics of throwing this type of punch and the dynamics of many BW exercises overlap quite a bit- weight shifting, musucular stabilization, full body contractions behind one limb.

I think that the ability to support the body weight on any limb is an indicator of the same type of power that Gusukuma was noted for. You can learn it through different means, ie, just hitting bags, a combination of weight training and bags, or for a gifted few simple athletic ability. But the core skill is in understanding how to align the body and use the muscles to direct all force being generated into the striking limb and then support the impact/counter impact with that same network. The most important factor here is in actually hitting stuff- the best way to develop a punch is to hit a bag. Control of the body's weight and frame is also an essential advantage for ground work, throwing/falling etc. It's not the only way, but BW and some of the gymnastic exercises seem like very intuitive ways to feel out these alignments and "kinematic linkages" in the body.