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charles
Apr 04, 2008, 09:15 PM
Good or a bunch of hype?

Charles

Erik
Apr 04, 2008, 10:42 PM
What is Hikuta?

cheesedog
Apr 05, 2008, 01:32 AM
It's a martial art. Google Hikuta and you can find their website, it's mostly an ad for their dvd's and whatnot. Honestly it didn't impress me much.

Erik
Apr 05, 2008, 09:38 PM
I guessed on the Martial Art thing.

Looked at the website. It's another hit hard, make it hurt combat system. I wouldn't spend the money on the DVDs. Go find someone who teaches military HTH or something similar, and you'll probably learn most of the same stuff.

That said, that's my opinion from reading the website. If someone has some experience and would like to share, I'm open to hearing it.

Dominator350
Apr 05, 2008, 10:06 PM
it STINKS!

Fatman
Apr 06, 2008, 10:09 AM
"The Mike Marvel Dynaflex Method"?

Oh god...

charles
Apr 06, 2008, 11:50 AM
"The Mike Marvel Dynaflex Method"?

Oh god...

I'm not familiar with it but isn't it similar to the Charles Atlas dynamic tension stuff?

Whyte Chocolate
Apr 09, 2008, 03:19 AM
Hikuta is generally regarded as total BS. The whole idea of some secret, ancient Egyptian martial art with zero traceable lineage taught by some dude named Jack Savage... give me a break.

Here's a review of the old Hikuta book if anyone's interested:

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/hikutahand.htm

nready
Apr 10, 2008, 05:16 PM
"The Mike Marvel Dynaflex Method"?

Oh god...HAHAHAHAHAHA!LOL! Man nice.

Fatman
Apr 11, 2008, 02:43 AM
I'm not familiar with it but isn't it similar to the Charles Atlas dynamic tension stuff?

Exactly.

Mike Marvel is a poor rip-off of the Atlas method.
Atlas was a poor rip-off of the Swoboda method, with influences of the MacFadden method.

So you're getting stuff that's been swallowed and regurgitated twice.

Swifty31
Apr 11, 2008, 01:43 PM
You can get the Mike Marvel Dynaflex course from the transformetrics website as a PDF for free. Dynaflex and the Atlas Course is apples and oranges, Atlas was calisthenics and isotonic self resistance, Dynaflex is isometrics, very different from the Atlas Course and inferrior imo.

Swifty31
Apr 11, 2008, 01:52 PM
Hikuta has its good points, but nothing beats World War 2 combatives as taught by the Allies, as a quick, easy way to defend yourself. I would recommend mixing it with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu though, then you have all your bases covered as groundfighting is an important part of fighting and should not be ignored.

Dok Lee was the first teacher of Hikuta, which is a dumbed down version of the original art called Kuta. The Kuta fist is a soft fist, where you do not close your fist, the system relys on a relaxed body, a soft fist, speed, bodyweight falling behind the strike, and pre emptive striking(hitting first). A very powerful strike no doubt about it, the non striking hand comes back to the chest to propel the striking hand faster to the target. Dont buy into the hype though, if you want to learn Hikuta search for Dok Lee's original book and video. If anyone knows how I can upload a vcr tape to the internet I would be glad to upload it. Dok Lee is dead and the video is no longer for sale, I dont think I would be violating any copyrights.

Silumguy
Apr 11, 2008, 03:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQZ3xn-UmjI&feature=related

Sounds like the power generation is very similar to XingYiQuan. Above video shows it in action. Of course, the little Hikuta I've seen seemed to have a lot of circular movements and twisting in it, similar to BaGuaZhang. Both however are internal styles, which would go along with the "soft" striking.

Relating to the original topic. The idea behind it seems logical enough, but everything Hikuta I've seen has McDojo written all over it. Plus anyone I've seen actually doing supposed Hikuta was, at least to my eye, very unskilled. But, thats just my $0.02.

Swifty31
Apr 11, 2008, 04:20 PM
Yeah Hikuta has been corrupted by Hucksters. I wish you guys could have seen Dok Lee in action. On the video he is an overweight, older man, with greying hair and goatee. Im guessing that he was in his late 60's, he also smoked cigarretes Ive heard. But his speed was unreal, and his power was vicious. He was without a doubt a lethal human being. I have never seen anyone match his speed, and I have no doubts that he could handle himself in a self defense situation, the orginal Hikuta course came out to help Police officers defend themselves. But like I have previously stated I recommend WW2 Combatives, and BJJ, Hikuta is no longer available. If you can find the original Dok Lee book and video though get them you will be impressed.

Swifty31
Apr 11, 2008, 05:49 PM
http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/hikutavideo.htm

Here is Phil Elmore's review of the video which is more favorable than his book review. I gave Phil the video so that he could write the review because I had seen that he had trashed the book and I wanted him to see Dok Lee in action before panning Hikuta. As you can see he became less critical towards Hikuta after seeing the video but he never embraced it, mostly because he didnt like the Kuta hand, and the dubious history of the lineage coming from Egypt. Personally I dont care if Bruce Springstein is somebodies Shidoshi, if they can fight, and teach me to fight. The Egyptian history thing is a mute point and irrelevant to me. But to a guy like Phil Elmore who does Wing Chun Kung Fu, and can trace his Sifu's lineage back to Yip Man, lineage is important. To each his own, just dont buy into the hype machine that Hikuta has become, and dont write it off either without a trial run. Just another tool in the toolbox is how I look at it.

Fatman
Apr 11, 2008, 07:20 PM
You can get the Mike Marvel Dynaflex course from the transformetrics website as a PDF for free. Dynaflex and the Atlas Course is apples and oranges, Atlas was calisthenics and isotonic self resistance, Dynaflex is isometrics, very different from the Atlas Course and inferrior imo.

Not really apples and oranges. The Atlas course included isometric exercises. Plus IMHO it was more crap than the Dynaflex method. Actually, I've never seen anything worse or more misguided than the Atlas course. Atlas was the Matt Furey of many years ago. The "dynamic resistance" concept is utter bull, while isometrics have a role in developing actual strength.

Atlas was a guy who lifted weights on a regular basis, yet had people pay for his course that promoted weightles exercises.

Mike Marvel had exercises similar to those of John Peterson. While I also think that this is an inferior method to building strength and muscle, it's way better than the delusions pushed by Atlas.

nready
Apr 11, 2008, 07:54 PM
Not really apples and oranges. The Atlas course included isometric exercises. Plus IMHO it was more crap than the Dynaflex method. Actually, I've never seen anything worse or more misguided than the Atlas course. Atlas was the Matt Furey of many years ago. The "dynamic resistance" concept is utter bull, while isometrics have a role in developing actual strength.

Atlas was a guy who lifted weights on a regular basis, yet had people pay for his course that promoted weightless exercises.

Mike Marvel had exercises similar to those of John Peterson. While I also think that this is an inferior method to building strength and muscle, it's way better than the delusions pushed by Atlas.I agree with you Fatman on this idea overall.

The thing is to help the injury or some person that has not worked out much. The Isotonic and the Isometrics is what the Physical Therapist will often proscribe in United States at least for muscle injuries or sever strains. In that this does not help they might even use things like electrical stimulate the muscle.

I agree that they are not used to building shape or size or strength in the way of weights. I also agree that Atlas was the Matt Furey of his day. He offered no real intelligence on the subject of body weight exercises.

Swifty31
Apr 11, 2008, 08:12 PM
You might not like the Atlas Course, but it is a lot different than Dynaflex. Dynamic Tension was isotonic due to the fact you keep the tension through out a whole range of motion. Instead of the isometric flexes of Dynaflex that are static. John Peterson thinks the Atlas Course is the best thats why he lifted almost every exercise in it and put it into "Pushing Yourself to Power". Atlas was different from Furey in the fact that he was a walking advertisement he had real muscles. Furey is just a short little fat man. Both have over the top ad campaigns though. Both stole their workouts from others, Furey from Gotch, The Atlas Course was written by Fredrick Tilney. The Atlas Course works but I agree that there are faster ways to muscle building. The Atlas Course is also a lot longer than Dynaflex. If you like Dynaflex, Mike Dayton's Chi Mind Control Course is a lot like Dynaflex but has more exercises and a lot of good nutrition information, as well as some self help type literature.

cheesedog
Apr 11, 2008, 09:22 PM
Swifty31, I do agree with your statement about lineage, it is pretty irrelevent and actually learning to fight is much more important. It does, however, give me pause if I believe someone feels it necessary to lie about their lineage.

Swifty31
Apr 12, 2008, 01:07 PM
I agree Cheesedog. I just bought a PC camera, I may make a youtube video of Hikuta strikes if anyone is interested. I can teach you the basics of Hikuta in about a half an hour. That way you guys can see what its all about, and avoid having to pay high prices, I can teach you just as much as anyone else about Hikuta and I will do it for free. And like I said I will transfer Dok Lee's video and put it on the internet and photocopy his book and try to make a PDF, that way everybody can get the original source stuff for free. I dont think I would be violating any laws because Dok Lee is dead, and no one else is selling the package currently. I just need to learn how to do this stuff, Im computer stupid :)

I dont view Hikuta as the be all, end all of fighting. Just another tool in the toolbox, you still need to learn groundfighting(judo,jiujitsu), WW2 Combatives, Hikuta, some boxing, etc. To be well prepared, I also recommend point shooting, and some kind of knife system so that you can learn to fight to survive a life and death encounter. If anyone is interested in this Youtube video for me to make, let me know, and be patient Im just learning about this PC stuff.

nready
Apr 12, 2008, 01:49 PM
I am interested to see what is Hikuta, Swifty31. So I will see it when you get it up.

later nready

Swifty31
Apr 12, 2008, 02:21 PM
Will do nready if I can figure this stuff out. See Hikuta was developed to teach people self defense in about a half hour time slot. The original video was forty minutes in length. But video makers and teachers like Al Abbidin and Jack Savage, add things to Hikuta to make more money by teaching more things so they can have more material to sell. Al has mixed Hikuta with Military H2H to pad his system. Jack has mixed Hikuta with standup Jiu Jitsu, Catch Wrestling, and Military H2H. If they actually taught Hikuta as intended by Dok Lee, they would sell a half hour video. If they wanted to teach a class, it would only take one class and the student would have mastered the Kuta hand and the startle reflex and would never have to come back for more instruction. Its simple and easy to learn, and once you know it you would retain it for life. But for a martial arts business and school this is no good for being a big money maker, so they add things from other systems to keep people buying videos and to keep people coming to classes, etc. Thats why a lot of martial arts schools have belt rankings, etc. Not to teach self defense but to make money. Hikuta is nothing more than a system to be learned quick, and have someone ready to defend themselves in less than an hour and there is no need for follow up classes, because it is simple and easily learned and relys on natural body movements for power, thats why it was a police course at first. Like I said I can teach someone Hikuta in half and hour. You wont leave the class and go and win the UFC, or be the toughest guy in town, but you will leave having a faster, stronger striking prowess, and you will be better able to defend yourself if need be. Its not for pro fighters, but for men and women who have no self defense skills, it teaches them how to hit with bodyweight behind their strikes, faster than they thought could possibly strike, and harder than they thought they could strike. Its worth learning in my opinion.

charles
Apr 12, 2008, 04:47 PM
Will do nready if I can figure this stuff out. See Hikuta was developed to teach people self defense in about a half hour time slot. The original video was forty minutes in length. But video makers and teachers like Al Abbidin and Jack Savage, add things to Hikuta to make more money by teaching more things so they can have more material to sell. Al has mixed Hikuta with Military H2H to pad his system. Jack has mixed Hikuta with standup Jiu Jitsu, Catch Wrestling, and Military H2H. If they actually taught Hikuta as intended by Dok Lee, they would sell a half hour video. If they wanted to teach a class, it would only take one class and the student would have mastered the Kuta hand and the startle reflex and would never have to come back for more instruction. Its simple and easy to learn, and once you know it you would retain it for life. But for a martial arts business and school this is no good for being a big money maker, so they add things from other systems to keep people buying videos and to keep people coming to classes, etc. Thats why a lot of martial arts schools have belt rankings, etc. Not to teach self defense but to make money. Hikuta is nothing more than a system to be learned quick, and have someone ready to defend themselves in less than an hour and there is no need for follow up classes, because it is simple and easily learned and relys on natural body movements for power, thats why it was a police course at first. Like I said I can teach someone Hikuta in half and hour. You wont leave the class and go and win the UFC, or be the toughest guy in town, but you will leave having a faster, stronger striking prowess, and you will be better able to defend yourself if need be. Its not for pro fighters, but for men and women who have no self defense skills, it teaches them how to hit with bodyweight behind their strikes, faster than they thought could possibly strike, and harder than they thought they could strike. Its worth learning in my opinion.

Thanks, Swifty. I'll be anxious to see your video when you get things figured out. I'm like you. I'm not that knowledgeable on computers. I wouldn't know how to do a video either. Good luck with it.

Phoenician
Apr 18, 2008, 11:33 PM
I've noticed people always looking for something new in Martial Arts, like something will totally blow them away and be the ultimate system.
Everythings already been done, i think Western martial arts are still highly uncredited.
I guess for some, Martial arts are more of a novelty than a set of skills to aid an individual in combat.
most people i chat to who argue the validity of things that havent been proven, multiple attackers, "deadly" techniques, etc. are just nerds who HOPE these things will magically work, so that they can believe they have the upper hand, to stop themselves feeling insecure and victimized;)
feel free to be pissed off

Fatman
Apr 19, 2008, 09:15 AM
I guess for some, Martial arts are more of a novelty than a set of skills to aid an individual in combat.
most people i chat to who argue the validity of things that havent been proven, multiple attackers, "deadly" techniques, etc. are just nerds who HOPE these things will magically work, so that they can believe they have the upper hand, to stop themselves feeling insecure and victimized;)

Oh, how true...

Dweebs around the world think that going to martial arts classes will turn them into deadly warriors. Then they get a rude wake-up call in the form of a bad beating from some guy who's never gone to a class in the "pajama-wearing sports"; I guess this is just chalked down to "bad chi".

nready
Apr 20, 2008, 03:13 AM
Will do nready if I can figure this stuff out. See Hikuta was developed to teach people self defense in about a half hour time slot. The original video was forty minutes in length. But video makers and teachers like Al Abbidin and Jack Savage, add things to Hikuta to make more money by teaching more things so they can have more material to sell. Al has mixed Hikuta with Military H2H to pad his system. Jack has mixed Hikuta with standup Jiu Jitsu, Catch Wrestling, and Military H2H. If they actually taught Hikuta as intended by Dok Lee, they would sell a half hour video. If they wanted to teach a class, it would only take one class and the student would have mastered the Kuta hand and the startle reflex and would never have to come back for more instruction. Its simple and easy to learn, and once you know it you would retain it for life. But for a martial arts business and school this is no good for being a big money maker, so they add things from other systems to keep people buying videos and to keep people coming to classes, etc. Thats why a lot of martial arts schools have belt rankings, etc. Not to teach self defense but to make money. Hikuta is nothing more than a system to be learned quick, and have someone ready to defend themselves in less than an hour and there is no need for follow up classes, because it is simple and easily learned and relys on natural body movements for power, thats why it was a police course at first. Like I said I can teach someone Hikuta in half and hour. You wont leave the class and go and win the UFC, or be the toughest guy in town, but you will leave having a faster, stronger striking prowess, and you will be better able to defend yourself if need be. Its not for pro fighters, but for men and women who have no self defense skills, it teaches them how to hit with bodyweight behind their strikes, faster than they thought could possibly strike, and harder than they thought they could strike. Its worth learning in my opinion.Just noticed that you responded to me in this thread, I agree on the concept of the money maker thing that is why I don't do Japanese systems of martial arts.

I have studied for some time systems of Chinese Martial Arts, like the three internals Hsing Yi, Taiji, and Pakua. I figured it might have something I did not know. So I was wondering what was in it that is why I am interested.

onelasttime
Oct 13, 2008, 12:36 PM
Just out of interest has anyone actualy put the Mike Marvel Dynaflex course to the test? Seriously I am familar with it but have never actualy tested it. I am familar with other course's that built on from where it left off with signifacant improvements like Yogametrics and Mike Dalton's Chi-Mind Control course. Now while I have read these course's I have not put them to the test. I will say though that Mike Dalton was a world class body builder, power lifter and strongman in his day. He has couched National and Olympic level strength athlete and he now has his course which again is leaps and bounds better then the old Mike Marvel course both i it's design,application and method. You would think that with Mike Daltons credeitials and such that his course would by default at least make Marvel's course sound in theory!

I also know that John Peterson includes a section in his Isometric book on Iso Power Flexing and that it has it's roots in Mike Marvels and Mike Daltonss course's. Their are plenty of people that have used them to great effect. Obviously not anything like what the Mike Marvel course claimed mind you but they built muscle, increased strength and lost body fat. Then you also have course like Maxic and others old time strongman that used Muscle COntrol and those course's are inline with Mike Marvel's Dynaflex and John Petersons Iso Power Flex's.

So all I am saying is that until someone really put's them to the test for say 3 months how does anyone know it is poo? I have found that opinions usualy reflect what we believe not what we know.

I would off to try it but I am also doing BWE's and lifting weights! I do not know how we or I could be sure what effect I was getting from just them with everything else I am doing.

If someone wanted to try them I would either get Mike Daltons Chi-Mind Control course which is back in print or I would get John Petersons book in Isometrics since he covers Iso Power Flexing which is basicly more of the same with his own twist. In fact John Petersons Isometric Power Revolutions covers the royal court, tiger moves as put forward by the legendary Mc Sweeny, Isometrics as put forward by the Max Von Plank Institute in Germany and Iso Powerflex in a simalar fashion to Maxic Muscle Control or Mike Marvel Dynaflex or Mike Daltons Chi-Mind Control. In that one book you are getting what you would get in most other peoples 4 books interms of information and techniques to try.

If anyone is interested I am willing to try it in addition to what else I am doing and report my finding but like I said it will not be a clean study since I am doing other things as well!

bodylifter
Mar 21, 2009, 08:56 PM
Hikuta has its good points, but nothing beats World War 2 combatives as taught by the Allies, as a quick, easy way to defend yourself. I would recommend mixing it with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu though, then you have all your bases covered as groundfighting is an important part of fighting and should not be ignored.

Dok Lee was the first teacher of Hikuta, which is a dumbed down version of the original art called Kuta. The Kuta fist is a soft fist, where you do not close your fist, the system relys on a relaxed body, a soft fist, speed, bodyweight falling behind the strike, and pre emptive striking(hitting first). A very powerful strike no doubt about it, the non striking hand comes back to the chest to propel the striking hand faster to the target. Dont buy into the hype though, if you want to learn Hikuta search for Dok Lee's original book and video. If anyone knows how I can upload a vcr tape to the internet I would be glad to upload it. Dok Lee is dead and the video is no longer for sale, I dont think I would be violating any copyrights.

Swifty - I know how we can do it. Drop me a line.

onelasttime
Mar 21, 2009, 09:44 PM
Ground fighting is not all that important. Seriously I wrestled for 4 year's and I did Judo in College both as sports. I have never felt the need to take a guy down to the ground to win a fight. In fact I teach my boy's to get up off the ground as soon as they can and to never fight ont he ground unless you have no other choice. Ground fighting works best against other ground fighter's and that is about it. If you want a fight to last much longer then it should take it to the ground! Ground fighting is too easy to counter and too full of reversal oppertunities. As a sport MMA and JuiJitsu are great hard to beat for total body conditioning!!! JiJitsu had is ass handed to it by Judo which is why the Japaneese police force use's Judo and not JiJitsu as it's basis for training their Police. Their was a huge contest that took days or weeks where the Best JuJitsu House's and Judo House's went at it to see which one would come out on top.

I seen some a very limited amount of Police H2H training in Japan and I never say them take a perp tot he ground along with themsef's! Usualy just the perp goes to the ground not the cop and if he does make his way down to them it is to slap hand cuff's on them!

I have no idea about HIKUTA I have never seen it practiced and never run into anyone that use's it or teach's it. I like old school hand to hand stuff myself. When one combines H2H stuff with some boxing it makes for an easy to learn and master system of total fighting.

Anyone that thinks Western Boxing is nothing special I would put money on Mike Tyson against anyone on this board that is strictly and Eastern Martial Art's Practioner!!! First you have to hurt him ie knock him out or damage his body tot he point that he is no threat to you. All he needs is to hit you once and most would crumble over like wett news paper! That is the power of Western Boxing. To be able to slip punch's and kicks to be able to take a hard blow and not get hurt so that you can get into range and drop your bomb's ont he enemy.

In a real fight though ont he street eye's,ear's throat, testicles, penis, places where major arteries lie and where major organs live these are the places you hit,stab,cut or shoot. I hit a guy in the chest right over his heart and he droped like a leaf. I had to give him CPR to keep from killing him! I only hit him once and I was not trying to stop his heart. When I slipped his punch he left his chest wide open so I took it. I had planed on following that up with a gut or throat shot or his chin to end the fight but I never got the chance. Nothing fancy just a right cross to his chest. No dimak non-sense or anything esoteric!

Anyone that thinks practiceing some special technique or esoteric art is going to save them is going to be in for a rude shock. State of mind and willingness to act those are the real tings that make all the difference.Any system can be made to work in a fight but unless you have worked on useing it for true deffense outside of the Dojo or class room most fail. A system should be simple so no thought is needed and it is easy to program the moves into your nervious system. Once you go complicateing things that just makes it harder to master it and use in a fight. Basic trapping and punching and blocking with some simple throghs and easy wrist and elbow joint lock's that is all you need. Sure foot work can come in handy and being able to use your knee's and do some low kicks helps too but are not must train things.

I was watching a Video by lyteburly and these guys where doing sticky hands! If you do not know what sticky hands is it is a way of training traping skills that Bruce Lee made famious in this country.

bodylifter
Apr 11, 2009, 09:30 PM
Hikuta has its good points, but nothing beats World War 2 combatives as taught by the Allies, as a quick, easy way to defend yourself. I would recommend mixing it with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu though, then you have all your bases covered as groundfighting is an important part of fighting and should not be ignored.

Dok Lee was the first teacher of Hikuta, which is a dumbed down version of the original art called Kuta. The Kuta fist is a soft fist, where you do not close your fist, the system relys on a relaxed body, a soft fist, speed, bodyweight falling behind the strike, and pre emptive striking(hitting first). A very powerful strike no doubt about it, the non striking hand comes back to the chest to propel the striking hand faster to the target. Dont buy into the hype though, if you want to learn Hikuta search for Dok Lee's original book and video. If anyone knows how I can upload a vcr tape to the internet I would be glad to upload it. Dok Lee is dead and the video is no longer for sale, I dont think I would be violating any copyrights.

Hey Swifty, did you ever figure out a way to be able to share the video of DOK Lee teaching Hikuta? If you need help let me know and I'll try to give you as much help as I can. I'm home from Iraq now by the way.

sanjid123
Apr 14, 2009, 11:42 AM
Is it an English word ? if not than what or which countries word?

Jimmies
Apr 15, 2009, 05:54 AM
See for a gym that teaches ' krav maga '

its basicly the same.

bill miller
Apr 29, 2009, 03:01 AM
Krav Maga is the Israeli self defense method taught by their armed forces. It's outstanding for anybody starting or getting back into MA's. It's all about muscle memory. Just remember, Krav Maga isn't a "sport" martial art like Boxing, Wrestling, Karate, TKD, Judo or BJJ can be. It's sole purpose is self defense in war. However, also be aware that Krav Maga wasn't developed to kick the crap out a SERIOUS Martial Artist. It was more about how to defend yourself against average joes looking to kill you.