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View Full Version : Jack of all trades Vs Master of one.



Sepanto
Jun 19, 2007, 03:25 PM
What type of a fighter do you believe is better? The one who knows a lil bit of everything, the well rounded say Anderson Silva, or the one who is an absolute master of a single style, say Royce Gracie.

I personally believe that a grandmaster in one style is better than a first dan black belt in many.

sifujerry
Jun 19, 2007, 06:39 PM
This is a tricky question because it really depends on the style and more importantly, the heart, or the desire to win.

The old adage, the best warrior was beaten by a farmer with a pitchfork comes to mind.

So, if I must answer either or, I'd say the jack of all trades. Every system has it's holes. If you cross train enough you can at least learn the dangers from the other styles.

But again, it comes down to the individual practitioner more than anything else.

Best, Jerry

hara_12
Jun 19, 2007, 06:52 PM
I will always be afraid of the person that practices one kick 1000 times as opposed to the person that practices 1000 kicks one time.

cheesedog
Jun 20, 2007, 02:55 AM
Well, in the sport of MMA, the well-rounded fighter has a distinct advantage over the specialist. If the specialist can't get, or keep, the fight in his realm of expertise he has a big problem.

Sepanto
Jun 20, 2007, 06:38 AM
Well, in the sport of MMA, the well-rounded fighter has a distinct advantage over the specialist. If the specialist can't get, or keep, the fight in his realm of expertise he has a big problem. True but part of the mastery is knwoing how to get things to your own realm...

Moonduck
Jun 20, 2007, 10:36 AM
*shrug* I've played with people vastly better than I was at a given range, and still rolled em up by going outside (or, rather, inside) their comfort zone. A perfect example was a TKD player that I knew that was really seriously good at long range. As a TKD guy, you knew he was going to kick well. Yet all I had to do was avoid that first kick and he was on the ground without a clue how to proceed. And, to be frank, that first kick isn't all that tough to avoid/mitigate.

Not dogging TKD, just saying that a specialist will get owned by someone that knows how to defuse their speciality and work well outside it. My JKD instructor used to say "There are four ranges. Pick two and get competent at them. If the first range doesn't work, the second one probably will."

Don't try to outpunch a puncher, don't try to outkick a kicker, etc.

As to the initial question, there are too many variables. What is the situation? What is the terrain? Rules or no rules? In the end, Sifujerry said it best: "it comes down to the individual practitioner more than anything else. "

Sepanto
Jun 20, 2007, 11:22 AM
I agree that the average level it's better to be well rounded, but i ask about the case in which a man is an absolute master of his art. Your TKD experince doesn't sound like a man who studied his art for decades and 100% mastered every aspect of it. I speak street fight wise, no rules.

Sifujerry is right, but the individual's ability is determined by many factors unconnected to his art such as hight, weight, sharpness at moment...

Moonduck
Jun 20, 2007, 11:32 AM
I agree that the average level it's better to be well rounded, but i ask about the case in which a man is an absolute master of his art. Your TKD experince doesn't sound like a man who studied his art for decades and 100% mastered every aspect of it. I speak street fight wise, no rules.

Guys what have studied their art for decades don't generally get into street fights.

Aside from that, you are discussing hypotheticals, not actual. The hypothetical super-master will use his thousand-palm strike with such precision that you cannot avoid it, even being twelve feet away. Sure, Chuck Norris might be able to asplode your head from three states away, but that kinda stuff doesn't happen in normal life.

In my case, said TKD player had studied TKD for about ten years IIRC. He was certified to teach it, and started his own school about a year or so later. Personally, I thought he was an artist, not a fighter, and that is why I handled him*. It goes back to the idea that it is all about the individual.

If you are an olympic level judo player, I can understand mastering one or two moves to the point that you can pull em off regardless. Same with other limited tactical situations. For everybody else, you need to be more broad-based.

Hell, how many times did Royce Gracie show that really good strikers can be flattened by moderately good grapplers?**



* - Not that I am claiming to be a great fighter, just that a pure artist will get flattened by someone with even a little bit of fight in him.

** - In the early UFC's, Royce was moderately good, not an absolute master. Look at some of the other Gracies to see that.

juggledex
Jun 20, 2007, 11:43 AM
Then there's this guy!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8
Just kiddin'

But seriously, it's been said, it all depends. If you're a master of one style and someone either enough training to effectively take you off your game then you're through. I think it's safe to say, eveyone knows a master striker can be taken to the ground and beaten, just as a master grappler could be hit by a strike and KO'ed. There are too many variable to answer this loaded question, but it's fun to discuss. :)

Moonduck
Jun 20, 2007, 12:02 PM
Wow, that video is painful to watch. Ouch. I guess the old guy believed too much of his own BS.

sifujerry
Jun 20, 2007, 02:00 PM
It has been said above to train in two of the ranges.

If you believe this, what ranges would you prefer.

I believe that if you are proficient in boxing and grappling you will have the best advantage.

Anyone else?

Also, is it better to be bigger or smaller in your opinion? (Loaded question, I know!!!)

Best, Jerry

juggledex
Jun 20, 2007, 02:21 PM
to sifujerry's question: muay thai kickboxing for striking/standing and bjj or catch wrestling for ground.

Sepanto
Jun 20, 2007, 02:27 PM
I personally train Karate standing and JJJ for groudnwork.

sifujerry
Jun 20, 2007, 10:31 PM
to sifujerry's question: muay thai kickboxing for striking/standing and bjj or catch wrestling for ground.

Very wise answer. I was wondering if someone would say that. It is of course the best combo. However, you're combining two ranges into one of your skill sets. It is of course a stupid question. fun to ponder though.

I think if you're talking about survival in the streets or combat, the best things to learn are some kind of silat/kali with BJJ. This will incorporate all of the ranges and include weapons.

Silat is kind of like Muay Thai but closer and not for the ring. I think once you train in anything that you see in a ring, it's less dangerous because of the rules placed on it. I'm not poo-pooing Thai because I think it's very potent. BUT, you never hear about Silat used in the ring. Why? Because you can't get in the ring and be poking dudes in the eyes and ripping their gonads off. Then you finish them off by breaking their ankle. This would shrink the fighters pool substantially.

Just my two cents after thinking about this for quite some time before this thread was even posted.

Moonduck
Jun 20, 2007, 11:19 PM
It has been said above to train in two of the ranges.

If you believe this, what ranges would you prefer.

I don't personally think that it matters overall. So long a syou are proficient in more than one range, you will be better off than the majority of trained people out there. Most folks concentrate on one range, with some work in another. TKD players like long range, with some punching. Boxers do punching, with some trapping. Grapplers do grappling and perhaps some long range stuff to work into grappling range.

If you go beyond that basic additional range-work, and get good at a second range, you already have the edge over the normal person trained in the sort of art you yourself trained in. And that is the point. If you are fighting a trapper, keep him at long range. If you are fighting a kicker, get up in his grill and go to trapping range or on the ground. The whole point to being proficient in a second range is to be flexible enough to switch ranges when you realise you are out-classed in whatever range you would normally start out in, and to have a greater chance of being able to counter range for range when you face down someone of unknown skillset.