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View Full Version : how effective is boxing/kickboxing in a street fight?



crazydan
Feb 14, 2007, 09:37 PM
how effect is it. example
front stance:
side stance:
jab:
cross:
hook:
uppercut:
over hand:
shovel hook:
back fist:
spinning back fist:
front kick:
rear front kick:
jumping front kick:
front round house:
rear round house:
jumping round house:
front side kick:
rear side kick:
jumping side kick:
back kick:
rear back kick:
jumping back kick:
front,rear, spinning crescnet kick
front, rear, spinning hook kick
jumping spining hook kick
front and rear ax kick
footsweep in front stance and side stance
front and rear low kick
Defensive
block
parries
evasive moves
side and back stepping
direct countering

crazydan
Feb 15, 2007, 10:38 PM
my opinion o n the punches are they are all good xcept backhand(especiallly spinning back hand)

Sepanto
Feb 16, 2007, 07:39 AM
backhand is good as punch to the sack...
all jumping kicks are a big no-no.

plancheismine
Feb 16, 2007, 02:53 PM
effective when the fight doesn't go to the ground and kick boxing is good for bigger opponents....boxing not so much

crazydan
Feb 17, 2007, 03:05 PM
i think all the above waist and jumping and spinning things are bad. back hand imo is also bad.

fogs
Feb 21, 2007, 03:42 AM
Depends how competent you are.
Spinning back fist is a KO when delivered properly without a glove. Wouldnt try it on a fighter until you are very practised..
Kick boxing has its place but will not answer the questions asked by an all-round trained fighter. Unless of curse you have a strong enough punch to KO your opponent before things get to close for comfort.

crazydan
Feb 21, 2007, 11:44 AM
wont u get punched in the head if you turn around in a fight?
the otheer thing I do not like about it is that isnt it ez to break your hand doing that? Isnt the back of your hand weaker then your knuckles?

cheesedog
Feb 21, 2007, 04:33 PM
A spinning backfist is like any other technique; it's great in the right time and can get you hurt if you do it at the wrong time!

I was taught to do a backfist, spinning or not, with the knuckles, not the back of the hand. After hitting sandbags both ways I can see why.

Remember the UFC fight between Shonie Carter and Matt Serra, where Shonie KO'd Serra with a spinning backfist? That was an example of the right moment and distancing for that technique.

crazydan
Feb 21, 2007, 05:28 PM
alright so I gues I WILL practice it. what about a regular backfist, jab, cross, hook, uppercut, shovel, and overhand?

cheesedog
Feb 22, 2007, 01:46 AM
Devote most of your training time to techniques that are high-percentage; that means the more likely it is to be effective the more time you spend practicing it. Of the list you just posted, I would spend most of my available workout time practicing jab, cross, hook, and uppercut, with less time on the overhand. The shovel hook and any backfists would be practiced in small amounts only.

Moonduck
Feb 22, 2007, 11:04 AM
*shrug* I'd give the shovel hook some good practice. Moreso than the backfist. It's an excellent close-in maneuver with a lot of power and is comparatively easy to learn. By that token, it's not something you need to do a lot of. Just enough to get it in your repetoire.

Backfists, to an extent are the same way. I don't consider them terribly useful, especially the spinning kind, but you may find some reason to throw one.

Overall, you should do as Cheesedog suggests and train the most on the techniques you'll get the most use out of.

cheesedog
Feb 22, 2007, 01:09 PM
Well, maybe it's just me, but it seems like most of the time when I throw the shovel hook my opponent just drops the point of their elbow onto my fist or back of my hand. Without gloves that can REALLY hurt. I broke a training partners hand right between the first and second knuckles with the elbow block one time (accidentely off course!). If you and they throw hard enough it hurts even with gloves.

On the other hand, on the rare occasions it DOES connect, it works nicely!
If you've gotten somewhat of a side position on your partner and throw the shovel so it loops up and under the ribs you can knock the wind out of them pretty easily.

crazydan
Feb 22, 2007, 02:55 PM
Thanks. I have really only worked on the main boxing punches so far because I havent actually started kickboxing training yet. i will start working in the back hand. BTW have any of you seen the Kickboxing stance where you keep one of you arms down? IMO that looks like you would get crushed if you faught like that.

cheesedog
Feb 22, 2007, 03:42 PM
It's certainly not the way I learned to fight, but I suppose it might work for someone. *shrug*

Moonduck
Feb 22, 2007, 06:38 PM
Well, maybe it's just me, but it seems like most of the time when I throw the shovel hook my opponent just drops the point of their elbow onto my fist or back of my hand. Without gloves that can REALLY hurt. I broke a training partners hand right between the first and second knuckles with the elbow block one time (accidentely off course!). If you and they throw hard enough it hurts even with gloves.

On the other hand, on the rare occasions it DOES connect, it works nicely!
If you've gotten somewhat of a side position on your partner and throw the shovel so it loops up and under the ribs you can knock the wind out of them pretty easily.

I've never had any trouble sticking it. Then again, this could be because I fight right-side lead. This puts my right shovel in a much different position on the normal left-lead fighter. Could be why I've had such good hits with the shovel hook.

As to hands down, dan, that's usually something that is done at longer range. The hands are down to assist with kick defense, and to sucker high kicks in. I've done it at range. It can work. When you get close though, you need to bring those hands up with a quickness, of course.

crazydan
Feb 22, 2007, 06:56 PM
Im guessing that other stance would not be ideal for a street fight because you shouldnt be doing high kicks anyway.

cheesedog
Feb 23, 2007, 09:42 PM
On the other hand you have a guy like Chuck Liddell who keeps his hands fairly low, and I think you could say he's been rather successful.

And it's odd Moonduck, but now that I think of it the rare occasions I get the shovel hook working good it IS when I'm in opposite lead to my opponent. I'm glad you brought that up, it gives me something else to work on!

crazydan
Feb 24, 2007, 11:33 AM
I just realized something. Did any of you watch the frank shamrock vs gracie(spelling). One of the earlier fights the black guy that started doing flips at the end. He faught in this type of stance.

Moonduck
Feb 24, 2007, 11:43 AM
Well, Chuck Liddell happens to be good enough to do stuff like that. Bruce Lee also kept his lead hand fairly low as well. Again, he was VERY good at what he did. Me? I know I am nowhere near as good as those guys, so I keep my hands up.

With the shovel hook, I never thought about it before that post. It makes good sense tough. Most people are more used to midsection attacks coming in on the weak side, and not quite used to the angle of attack that a shovel hook takes on strong side.

crazydan
Feb 25, 2007, 06:08 PM
IMO. these are the best places to hit with each type of punch in a street fight:

Jab: face(best area is nose, eyes, chin) groin(mayby I never tried it)
cross: face(best area is nose, eyes, chin), chest, solar plexus, stomach, groin
Hook: side head(eespecially temple and side of jaw, kidney, ribs(especially floating ribs)
uppercut: face, chin, stomach, solar plexus, ribs, chest
shovel: ribs, liver,
overhand: face, (front of chin)
Backhand: side of head(especially temple) and side of jaw
spinning backhand: side of head(especially temple) and side of jaw
add in your opinions for punches, kicks, and defenses.

Moonduck
Feb 25, 2007, 06:43 PM
Another overlooked point is the armpit. There's a serious nerve cluster in there and some major blood vessels. Catch somebody with his arm up and drop a fist in there, and watch what happens.

Short answer - it HURTS. I never let my arms ride up again after that hit, lemme tell ya...

Obviously this is only a worthwhile target in bareknuckle. Gloves would prevent getting the shot in.

cheesedog
Feb 25, 2007, 08:01 PM
If I was using a backhand or spinning backhand in a non-glove (that is, street) situation, I would use a hammerfist rather than the backhand. If you ram your knuckles against the side of a guy's head you could break a hand. Hammer fist, or reverse hamer fist strikes to the side jaw, in a hooking fashion, have knockout potential. Also overhand strikes targeting the cheekbone in a 45 degree angle in and down. (Also same angle from underneath, hello shovel hook!)

crazydan
Feb 25, 2007, 09:24 PM
yah i was hit in the underarm. yah it hurt. what would be good for this the shovel? what other areas are good for the shovel. Also the hammer fist is good. as seen on fight science a hard enuff hammer punch to the heart can kill you.
here are some sights on best areas to hit.
http://www.bombshock.com/file26/target.txt-Fighting_skills-793.htm
http://www.bombshock.com/file4/body1.txt-Weaknesses_of_the_human_anatomy_1-255.htm

Sepanto
Feb 26, 2007, 03:16 AM
I found that the best stance is tradional karate's Neko-Ashi-Dachi stance (Cat ) whilst supporting your body on your weaker leg, kicking with the stronger.

Moonduck
Feb 26, 2007, 11:16 AM
Shovel lends itself well to body shots, with things like th epoint of the ribcage being a good target, the muscle just under the point, the armpit, etc.

NuMack
Mar 02, 2007, 08:54 PM
A quote that I always keep in mind when in training, fighting, or in life in general... "If you throw a kick throw it hard enough to break your foot, if you throw a punch do it hard enough to break your hand, and if you throw a man do it to leave a whole in the ground!"-- Bimba Famous Capeoira Master Other words commit when you strike or throw, something which most MA/MMA practioners don't do, and the one that do are elite. Commit to KO, disable, snap, or tap your enemies since they will be Commited to do the same to you.

As far as what moves and stance you should practice. I would say learn the mechanics then test them out. Its better to be good at 3 moves then to be okay at bunch. Plus you will naturally gravitate to the techniques that works best. And its best to think of stances as postures or plot points to getting you into best possible position to attack.

beggers
Mar 06, 2007, 10:25 AM
A spinning backfist is some novelty punch that is used to male oppenents look small..If you tried one of these againest a boxer of anyone who trains to fight it would be useless. You can see it come a mile off..

cheesedog
Mar 06, 2007, 04:11 PM
A spinning backfist is some novelty punch that is used to male oppenents look small..If you tried one of these againest a boxer of anyone who trains to fight it would be useless. You can see it come a mile off..

That's why you have to set it up. You don't throw it as the first move in a combination.

beggers
Mar 07, 2007, 04:29 AM
A spinning backfist is some novelty punch that is used to male oppenents look small..If you tried one of these againest a boxer of anyone who trains to fight it would be useless. You can see it come a mile off..

That's why you have to set it up. You don't throw it as the first move in a combination.

It dont matter its a three stage punch. People who know a bit about fighting will see it coming..1.)Legs move 360 2.)hips move 3.) then arm is extended. Its the worst punch. Plus you can do yourself an injury. Basically if it was such a useful punch why does nobody use it appart from this idiot and he still gets battered...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a33_1172831757

crazydan
Mar 07, 2007, 03:47 PM
what time is the spinning backfist shown?

cheesedog
Mar 08, 2007, 12:44 PM
As to whether the spinning backfist is a useful strike, I believe it was mentioned a page or so back, the UFC fight where Shonie Carter KO'd Matt Serra with a spinning backfist. Shonie might be a bit of a nut but he certainly isn't an idiot, and he is a very skilled fighter. If you watch the fight you see how he used it; as Serra lunged in Carter quickly spun and tagged him.

All that being said, despite almost 20 years in the martial arts I probably only throw a spin backfist 1-2 times a week in sparring, and I doubt I would ever use it in a real fight, simply because it's not a high-percentage move.

crazydan
Mar 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
as for defense for straights, uppercuts, overhand, and hooks you block them by smothering them. The hook you block with your forearm against there bicep. in a street fight you should def. use a open hand.
Does anyone now how to block kicks?

Sepanto
Mar 15, 2007, 04:01 AM
You shouldn't block kicks. The leg is about 6-7 times stronger than the arms, if you attempt to block a strong kick you might snap your wrist. The thing to do against kicks (As far as I know) is to get inside his range and sweep his standing leg.

RoMaRiOs
Mar 15, 2007, 07:42 AM
Well actually you can block kicks, not with your hands but with your own legs. If your opponent, for example, is trying to deliver a low kick you lift up your leg and slightly bend it so your kneecap is pointing out and capture the opponent's leg.

It doesn't work on high kicks of course.

P.S: It's still beter to avoid them

crazydan
Mar 15, 2007, 05:50 PM
yah. I meant with your leg. Dont kickboxer block kicks?

cheesedog
Mar 15, 2007, 07:52 PM
yah. I meant with your leg. Dont kickboxer block kicks?

Only when your only choice is block or be knocked out! ALWAYS try to avoid kicks with footwork and head/body movement, use the hands only to cover/parry.

crazydan
Mar 15, 2007, 08:30 PM
alright thanks

crazydan
Mar 15, 2007, 08:32 PM
punches are ok to block. IMO. as long as you smother straights, uppercuts, and shovels. and with the hooke just put youforearm into their bicep.

crazydan
Mar 16, 2007, 11:25 PM
alright so the things I should pracitce are avoidince and parrying all strikes? and leave the blocking for a last resort. and what about covering up?

flyingKite
Apr 02, 2007, 07:27 PM
http://www.bombshock.com/file26/target.txt-Fighting_skills-793.htm
http://www.bombshock.com/file4/body1.txt-Weaknesses_of_the_human_anatomy_1-255.htm

Dam, this stuff makes it sound like it is easy to get killed. Has anyone here ever been hit in these points?

crazydan
Apr 14, 2007, 06:30 PM
alright. I have finally learned the majority of the kickboxing punches.

the jab to head, jab to body, cross to head, cross to body, front hook to head, front hook to body, rear hook to head, rear hook to body, front shovel hook to head, front shovel hook to body, rear shovel hook to head, rear shovel hook to body, front uppercut to head, front uppercut to body, rear uppercut to head, rear uppercut to body.

i havent learned the more unorthodox punches yet, but are these an alright base for self defense?

cheesedog
Apr 14, 2007, 07:20 PM
Yes, stick with the basics. Worry about "unorthox" stuff later.

crazydan
Apr 14, 2007, 09:30 PM
i started learning the round house kick. im practicing all the areas like the head, sides, and legs, but i am mainly training the low kick. the higher kicks are just to strentghten my legs.

Twxy
May 09, 2007, 01:45 PM
Fist at all, hi to all. I haven't read all this topic, so don't be mad.

1. In street fight you don't need to complicate. The most usefull kick is with heel in his knee - short range, and he won't be able to run after you.

2. With hands: first two punches use wery light and fast to confuse him, then hit hard.

3. the best way in street fight is to run away :D .

Defence: use forehead for hand punches - you'll prob. destroy his fists or broke his arms.


I know that this post is a little offtopic, but might be usefull.
If u ask me, every Combat Art is usefull in street fight. If he is not trained, you won't have a prob. even if he more heavy and bigger than you.

jemoyson
Jul 30, 2007, 08:38 PM
when u execute a spinning back fist u are suppose to look first then spin ,same with a spining side kick, and yes it can be effective in a street fight but does take loads of practise, if the opponent is caught especially at the side of the face like the temple then his more than likely going down, futhermore we have all seen them being used especially in muay thai, and im sure we all agree that it is a very sneaky punch and one that is not expected hence the effectiveness.Boxing in my opinon is very effective in a street fight, its the basics, but also boxers are very evasive in there movement and defence, they know how to stay focused and calm during the stressfulness of a fight, which in my book is the key to a good street fighter, heart and being able to stay calm,which can be hard to do,but saying this boxers are not invinicible.Kick-boxing similar to boxing where they have the abilty to keep a opponent at bay, punches and kicks can do this.

bretakmf
Jul 30, 2007, 08:56 PM
boxing works very well.

all styles are crap without drive and intelligent aggression.

tacoman222
Dec 21, 2007, 02:09 PM
I think that the main question is are you looking at boxing and kickboxing as a way to fight or as self defense. They are two very different things. Everything so far has been in response to someone punching or kicking at you. What are you going to do when they have a stick, a club, a knife or a gun? Look to those techniques in boxing and Kickboxing (if any) that deal with those threats. Be careful of a cat stance as it can lock you in place and is very open to sweeps and pushes.
Just some thoughts as an instructor.

bladerunner
Feb 01, 2008, 03:48 PM
Last time I checked boxing was a sport and streetfighting was a crime.

The Vis
Feb 01, 2008, 05:18 PM
I'll admit before I start that it's been years since I trained, and it was Shuri-Ryu, not kick-boxing.

The best technique/move/etc in a street fight is the most devastating blow you can deliver instantly and without conscious thought.

One of the things that my sensei told us that sticks in my head was that after a certain point in your training, it's wise to pick a handful of strikes, maybe 3 or 4, and focus on them. "Perfection" is a dangerous word to use, but that's what you want to shoot for.

And, god forbid, you're ever in a position where you absolutely need to use them, don't hold back, don't think, don't wonder. Hit him/her with everything you have and run like hell.

There's way too many uncontrollable factors in a street fight, the best policy is to avoid them. And if you absolutely can't, it isn't time to show off, it's time to survive.

I'm fairly certain that's all been voiced already (hard to remember what's been said and what hasn't after reading 4 pages), but that's my philosophy on that matter. Although I've witnessed a few, I've been fortunate enough to have never been in a street fight, and I'd like to keep it that way.



Nigel

thbmoney
Feb 02, 2008, 01:21 PM
silly... krav maga, kenpo, and mhuay thai, and maybe silat are the only martial arts that are good for fighting .... the fancy spin kick bullshit nonsense will get you knocked out, and if it doesn't, other people will rush in to kick your ass because you look so damned retarded. Stick with some five point striking... don't underestimate your elbows, a good elbow to the face and the fight is done. If you really want to fight.. join in on a nearby studio practicing one of these martial arts, train your ass off, and compete as an amateur in some tournaments. When you're really fighting for your life no one knows what the hell is going on, and it's the simple things that you remember that will save you, and your ability to absorb punishment and not get knocked out or tear up, not some hopjukidoqueef spinning backfist.

peace

-tommy

Erik
Feb 02, 2008, 03:42 PM
silly... krav maga, kenpo, and mhuay thai, and maybe silat are the only martial arts that are good for fighting ....

Disagree with you entirely.

It is not just the art, it is the way that it is taught, the approach of the school (self-defense, MMA fighting, tournament, meditative) and more importantly than both those things, the nature of the person who is studying it.

Some people are better fighters than others. That's the way it is. I knew one guy (5' 6" tall, lovingly nicknamed "Skip") who practiced boxing and wrestling. He came out on top of a running fight with 12 guys [U]before[U] he started studying any other martial arts.

The best advice is, don't get into fights if you can avoid it. When you can't avoid it, put the other guy down as hard and as fast as you can and get the hell out before his friends come after you. And stay off the ground if at all possible. Once you're down there, his buddies will think that's their cue to put in the boot.

judojack
Feb 03, 2008, 06:21 PM
Just my HO, boxing, Muay Thai, wrestling, judo, BJJ, are about your best bet for unarmed defense. Kali will teach you a little about the knife and stick, a lot of it is impractical though. Krav or well taught kempo will have some good multiple or armed opponent applications. Kyokushin Karate will make you tough as hell, but a lot of that is not practical.

The best bet is to stay out of fights, but if you want or learn defense might I suggest shopping around. There are a LOT of paper tigers, keyboard warriors, and rex kwon do'ers out there.

Good luck.

crazydan
Feb 04, 2008, 12:30 AM
silly... krav maga, kenpo, and mhuay thai, and maybe silat are the only martial arts that are good for fighting .... the fancy spin kick bullshit nonsense will get you knocked out, and if it doesn't, other people will rush in to kick your ass because you look so damned retarded. Stick with some five point striking... don't underestimate your elbows, a good elbow to the face and the fight is done. If you really want to fight.. join in on a nearby studio practicing one of these martial arts, train your ass off, and compete as an amateur in some tournaments. When you're really fighting for your life no one knows what the hell is going on, and it's the simple things that you remember that will save you, and your ability to absorb punishment and not get knocked out or tear up, not some hopjukidoqueef spinning backfist.

peace

-tommy

please dont be an idiot. all MAs are effective in fighting. some ae more effective, but idk why kenpo is in your to 3. all teh kenpo guys got destroyed in the early UFCs

Fatman
Feb 04, 2008, 02:58 AM
please dont be an idiot. all MAs are effective in fighting. some ae more effective, but idk why kenpo is in your to 3. all teh kenpo guys got destroyed in the early UFCs

Yes, but UFCs and actual fighting are pretty different. Maybe kenpo has a better record in real-life situations.

Still, I guess simple stuff like boxing and wrestling would be more useful than trying to arm-bar someone in a street-like setting. Tapping some guy out with his face in your gonads makes decent TV (I don't know, many people seem to like it). However, entertainment is one thing, a threatening situation another. Basically what I've seen work best are a) keeping it together and not getting scared or overconfident b) being fast and strong, c) using controlled aggression. The most successful guys usually don't train martial arts at all, but have the qualities listed above and/or a lot of experience in street fighting.

daeinwolf
Feb 04, 2008, 10:32 AM
Yes, but UFCs and actual fighting are pretty different. Maybe kenpo has a better record in real-life situations.

Still, I guess simple stuff like boxing and wrestling would be more useful than trying to arm-bar someone in a street-like setting. Tapping some guy out with his face in your gonads makes decent TV (I don't know, many people seem to like it). However, entertainment is one thing, a threatening situation another. Basically what I've seen work best are a) keeping it together and not getting scared or overconfident b) being fast and strong, c) using controlled aggression. The most successful guys usually don't train martial arts at all, but have the qualities listed above and/or a lot of experience in street fighting.

I absolutely agree with you.