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ek2
Sep 25, 2006, 09:16 PM
What is the key to stronger punches, I feel like mine are fairly weak, and I really want to improve the strength of them.

VingTsunMonkey
Sep 25, 2006, 09:42 PM
There are many ways to look at a 'strong punch'.

I believe that speed is more important than strength. Body mechanics are the most important aspect of a punch. If you want to get faster, you have to build muscle memory. When I'm not busy, like working the grill on a late shift and the business is dead, I'll sink into a horse stance and drill snap punches until my arms get really sore. Same with Ving Tsun punch techniques, hooks, elbows, kicks, etc. You must drill everything over and over and over and over until it's as natural as breathing or walking. The muscles must contract with a certain order and share of force, if you keep drilling over and over again your brain learns not to think about those actions seperately but as one gross motion. It's called mylenation.

Body mechanics are VERY important. The force from a punch is mainly generated in the legs. My Sifu tells us: "A tree's branches are only as powerful as it's trunk". The legs should push into the ground, your hips should 'twist', your arm should extend and follow through the target. Don't punch them, punch the world behind them. There are of course different energies in a punch, I'll just assume you mean the standard (SLAM) type of punch. Your hand should contact the body with your knuckles pointing outward, and twist into the body so they point upward. You basically want to screw your fist into their spine.

A great, simple punch is the Ving Tsun punch, where the bicep never contracts so it's like getting hit by a train. Straight force. That takes proper training though, or you'd end up hurting your elbows.

Some exercises I do are pushups, pull ups, lat pull ups, body rows, plyo jumping, iron coil, weighted crunches, and I hit the exercise bike and do bagwork every morning. After each session I drink a tall glass of milk with a 40gm scoop of whey protein and some flax seed oil. Good stuff.

Just work hard and keep at it. Lift and drill constantly. Nothing replaces hard work and patience

8)

Moonduck
Sep 25, 2006, 10:34 PM
Yup, in fact "strength", in the classic terminology, can be a detriment. Normal strength is usually gained without keeping flexibility and speed intact. BW exercises don't tend to do that, as BW doesn't normally cause massive hypertrophy.

Look into how boxers train for power punching. A truly solid resource is Ross Enamait's "Power Punching" book. A good boxing technique manual will show how each mucle in the chain acts to enhance the power in a properly thrown punch.

Another good example is a study on how professional baseball pitchers throw a pitch. Every part of the body is involved in sequence, just like a good punch.

inamo
Sep 26, 2006, 01:01 AM
the first thing you have to do is to perfect the technique of a punch. than train for strength using resistance. having the body strength without proper technique will not be as strong as the puncher that has the technique down along with the strength.

plancheismine
Sep 26, 2006, 03:18 PM
hip rotation is the key!!!

Moonduck
Sep 26, 2006, 08:17 PM
Actually, I would say that proper timing is the key. Hip rotation is important, but timing the punch is more important. Timing it right involves hitting at the right distance, at the right moment in your opponents breath cycle, at the precise instant their guard is open, at the half-beat between punches, etc. It is also the proper timing of contractions across your body to produce a properly crisp, strong punch.

It's harder than it looks. Look at any professional boxer. when you really look at them, most only have one or two punches they're really good at. Same with high-level judoka practicioners. They only have one or two throws that they're really proficient with. Why? Because it is harder than it looks to produce a really serious, world-class punch or throw.

Serious advice would be to look to your feet before you worry about the power in your punches. Bad footwork will rob you of power, as well as leave you sitting like a dead duck. Good footwork enhances your ability to produce power, as well as your defensive abilities. Work on your footwork and distancing, and I bet your perceived punching power will increase.

plancheismine
Sep 27, 2006, 04:45 PM
Actually, I would say that proper timing is the key. Hip rotation is important, but timing the punch is more important. Timing it right involves hitting at the right distance, at the right moment in your opponents breath cycle, at the precise instant their guard is open, at the half-beat between punches, etc. It is also the proper timing of contractions across your body to produce a properly crisp, strong punch.

I disagree. He is asking for a stronger punch....not timing a punch. the key to a strong punch is your hips rotating and then your arm thrusting forward (or up)

Moonduck
Sep 27, 2006, 06:53 PM
I disagree. He is asking for a stronger punch....not timing a punch. the key to a strong punch is your hips rotating and then your arm thrusting forward (or up)

*shrug* Disagree all you want. Hip rotation, while important, is still muscle strength. Technique is VASTLY more important than pure muscle strength. Rotate your hips all you want, and you'll still throw a weaker punch than someone with similar physical ability and greater skill.

You have to start somewhere, and it is better to start somewhere useful that can enhance ALL of your attributes. That's why I said footwork. Hip rotation only enhances rotational maneuvers. Good footwork enhances just about every standing attribute.

Moreover, bad footwork will actively rob your punches of strength, as proper weight distribution and shift is key to power.

Bottom line - Any punch that starts only from the waist is not a strong punch.

If you don't believe me (and you've got no serious reason to do so, as I'm just some guy on the intarwebs), do some real research. Read books on boxing, or martial arts books presented with actual body mechanics, not just mytic jibba-jabba. Watch some good training DVD's on throwing a punch, or, if you have a good eye, watch boxing, or some other striking sport.

Your feet are involved even in a jab, if you know what you're doing. So start from the base, and then work your way up.

inamo
Sep 27, 2006, 07:51 PM
I agree with both of you hip rotation, timing the hip rotations, and knowing optimal power extension point of ones arm, the snap, are a few things to proper technique. hell if you learn proper technique alone you'll throw stronger punches.

Moonduck
Sep 27, 2006, 09:44 PM
Exactly. You pull it all together and you have power.

plancheismine
Sep 29, 2006, 05:46 PM
but most importantly is getting your hips and whole body involved in the hooks, uppercuts, and crosses

VingTsunMonkey
Sep 29, 2006, 06:08 PM
Timing is everything. Like I said, muscle memory is what a powerful punch comes down to. I've seen 120 lb women destroy a 100lb punching bag using proper technique.

Moonduck
Sep 29, 2006, 07:34 PM
but most importantly is getting your hips and whole body involved in the hooks, uppercuts, and crosses

You haven't been reading anything that was written so far, have you?

inamo
Sep 29, 2006, 08:55 PM
but most importantly is getting your hips and whole body involved in the hooks, uppercuts, and crosses

You haven't been reading anything that was written so far, have you? #-o

plancheismine
Sep 30, 2006, 01:26 PM
but most importantly is getting your hips and whole body involved in the hooks, uppercuts, and crosses

You haven't been reading anything that was written so far, have you?
why should I read about timing when he is asking for a stronger punch? :roll: Get your hips, arm, shoulders, and pivoting foot involved in the punch. when you use technique you are using your hips....

Moonduck
Sep 30, 2006, 03:43 PM
why should I read about timing when he is asking for a stronger punch? :roll: Get your hips, arm, shoulders, and pivoting foot involved in the punch. when you use technique you are using your hips....

On one hand, we have a house painter. He's a good house painter, and is thorough, and gets the paint where it is supposed to go, using paint and brushes.

On the other hand, we have Rembrandt. He does vastly more with paint and brushes.

You're right, dude. You don't need to read about timing. Keep on painting houses.

plancheismine
Sep 30, 2006, 09:50 PM
http://www.bradygames.com/content/downloads/walkthroughs/warriors/rembrandt.jpg
I will :wink: On one hand he asks a specific question about how to get stronger punches
1) someone talks about timing a punch
2) someone tells him how to get stronger punches
\:D/ =;

Moonduck
Oct 01, 2006, 12:48 AM
Heh, great pic.



On one hand he asks a specific question about how to get stronger punches
1) someone talks about timing a punch
2) someone tells him how to get stronger punches
\:D/ =;

No, you just gave advice on how to incorporate a few more muscles. That ain't gonna produce a stronger punch by itself. You need to look at the big picture, and figure out where to start first. Again, go to boxing. Learning how to time your opponent's punches is one of the biggest secrets to defense. You can fade, and throw both his distance and timing off, and you take WAY less damage from the punch. The reverse of that is true. If your distance and timing are crappy, you will never throw a strong punch. Core to distance and timing? Footwork.

What arts have you practiced, Plancheismine?

plancheismine
Oct 01, 2006, 10:21 AM
well timing is important and if you hit him at the right time he will get hurt...but he was just asking how to punch harder...your tips are important but that's a different question....
oh and you know more about all that stuff....I just wrestle, hit my heavy bag, and watch ufc. going to get into mma or just bjj 8)

Moonduck
Oct 01, 2006, 10:39 AM
well timing is important and if you hit him at the right time he will get hurt...but he was just asking how to punch harder...your tips are important but that's a different question....

I see where you are coming from. It is a difference of terminology then. In my definition, "stronger punches" refers to the totality of the punch (and is very skill-centric), and you were looking largely at the physical body mechanics. Makes sense.


oh and you know more about all that stuff....I just wrestle, hit my heavy bag, and watch ufc. going to get into mma or just bjj 8)

Meh, I wasn't asking what you practiced as a way to call you out. It's been years since I've done anything aside from shadowbox, and I don't make any claims at all about being a great martial artist. I was asking simply because you did not sound like the typical fanboy that has never stepped onto a training floor in his life. I was just curious to see where you were coming from.

Personally, wrestling is one of the best starters for MMA. You actually learn more about distancing working a strong shoot than you do in striking drills. The distance is longer, so you have to work your eye more. Additionally, wrestlers generally have better balance than your average striker, and frequently have faster feet. You can't pancake effectively without fast feet.

I miss grappling. My 50-60 hour work week prevents me from any sort of structured training though. Kind of hard to get any grappling or MA work in when you can't actually get to any sort of training facility on a reasonable schedule. Booo.

plancheismine
Oct 01, 2006, 10:54 AM
Personally, wrestling is one of the best starters for MMA. You actually learn more about distancing working a strong shoot than you do in striking drills. The distance is longer, so you have to work your eye more.
yeah wrestling works the takedowns and defense along with basic positioning. plus wreslters are usually strong and in great shape.
what do you mean about working the eye?

Moonduck
Oct 01, 2006, 11:17 AM
what do you mean about working the eye?

It means working on your ability to judge distance visually. There's two ways to gauge distance in a fight. One is by eye, and the other is by touch. Both are necessary, and the eye is by far the more difficult to train. Let's face it, if you make contact with your opponent physically, you know how far away he is.

It's actually a little bit more complex than that. If you've ever seen UFC, and Royce Gracie's fights in that one, you have a perfect example of judging distance by touch. He kept making these weak, floppy front kicks as he got closer. A lot of people were wondering what the hell he was doing, as that silly kick wouldn't hurt anyone. It wasn't properly a kick though. It was royce extending his leg to check distance. If he made contact with his opponent, he could immediately drop into a singel or double leg pick. It's trained reflex, and based of distance by touch.

Distance by eye is when you look at the distance between you and your foe and judge whether or not you can make a good shoot, or good kick or what have you. You have to gauge how far away he is by eye. With striking, it's not that hard. You tend to know how long your arms and legs are.

It's still an important skill to learn, of course, as your power zone in a given punch is a spread of a couple of inches at most. Once you reach max extension of your arm, your punch can't really go any further, so that's your max distance. If you hit too soon, and haven't extended your arm the proper distance, you won't have full muscle engagement. This is why boxers are taught to fade (pull back slightly from a punch) or intercept (pull into it, usually with a glove). Good MA's teach similar skills. It's all part of footwork and controlling distance. If you control distance better than your foe, you'll land your punches in your power zone, and take his punches outside of his power zone.

In grappling, it's even more important. You should know how long you shoot is. You know what I mean. You can go a certain distance before you over balance and start to sprawl or lose momentum. And if you're too close, you can't get the proper momentum, and need a different technique. Well, to make sure that you shoot (and other maneuvers) within your power zone, you work your eye, and get to the point where you visually judge a given distance as proper. As a wrestler, you already do this, whether you think of it in those terms or not.

The single best shooter I've ever seen was a collegiate wrestler in the DC area. The guy was phenomenal, and launched like he was shoot out of a cannon. I got to watch him shoot about a dozen times over course of a coupla matches at the Capital Games, years ago. No idea what happened to him, but he was the perfect example of excellent judgement, fully committed shoots, and explosive power.

plancheismine
Oct 01, 2006, 01:54 PM
a bit confusing. :shock:
when you shoot in wrestling you should be able to touch your opponent....or they would have a good chance of stopping the shot.

Moonduck
Oct 01, 2006, 03:15 PM
Shoot from touch only? Pfft. You can extend it beyond that if you have sufficient explosiveness. Now, I'm not talking about shooting from 8ft away. I'm talking about a shoot where you are still outside arm, or even leg, length. The wrestler I mentioned above was regularly shooting in from outside touch range. He was fast enough and strong enough.

Me? I was content to shoot from contact, like normal people, but there's a bit of a problem with relying on touch. If you touch the other guy to establish distance, you've just given away a huge telegraph, as well as letting him establish distance to you. Better to get into whatever range works for you and judge it by eye.

And, yeah, it's tough to describe this by text. Easier to show in person =P

plancheismine
Oct 01, 2006, 05:57 PM
I was talking in wrestling....you should be able to touch them or if not (like the guy you were talking about) the shot would probably unsuccessful. too easy to sprawl and defend if you aren't near your opponent. but I can shoot a low single (dive at the shin) and don't have to touch my opponent by using feints and speed

Moonduck
Oct 01, 2006, 06:51 PM
Against another wrestler, yeah. very few people that aren't wrestlers will have the sprawl reflex. I know, I sucked at it no matter how hard I tried. I had to redirect, or just go into the Guard, as I was never fast enough to pancake against even a moderately good shooter. And I always hated the Guard, as I'm not good at being passive. As a result, it meant my ground game was always aggressive. Luckily the only person that noticed it and took adavantage of it was my instructor.

Sadly, I think the biggest reason why my sprawl sucked was because we never trained in it. BJJ was really hitting big time on UFC and the guard was the maneuver to learn and to beat, so the classic sprawl, effective as it is, was never practiced. It was "get em into the Guard and work from there". Blah.

plancheismine
Oct 01, 2006, 08:45 PM
Against another wrestler, yeah. very few people that aren't wrestlers will have the sprawl reflex. I know, I sucked at it no matter how hard I tried. I had to redirect, or just go into the Guard, as I was never fast enough to pancake against even a moderately good shooter. And I always hated the Guard, as I'm not good at being passive. As a result, it meant my ground game was always aggressive. Luckily the only person that noticed it and took adavantage of it was my instructor.

Sadly, I think the biggest reason why my sprawl sucked was because we never trained in it. BJJ was really hitting big time on UFC and the guard was the maneuver to learn and to beat, so the classic sprawl, effective as it is, was never practiced. It was "get em into the Guard and work from there". Blah.
you never learned how to sprawl in bjj? :roll: that is very important...
just takes practice :wink:
(when I start bjj, i guess i will own them on takedowns :-D )
how much takedowns did you used to practice in bjj?

VingTsunMonkey
Oct 10, 2006, 03:54 AM
Anyway, back to punches :roll: :-D

When I punch (outside the ring), I have many different forms. For the head/face I would strike with the 2 prominent knuckles (index/middle). The motion would be a 'snapping' twist through the target. It works very well for hard targets like the skull. There are many nerves and sensitive structures in the face and head, brain not excluded :-D , when stuck with that sort of vicious penetrating force, you can do some very nasty damage to the face. If you strike around the front of the face, around the lips, eyes, and nose, you have a good chance of making their eyes water and possibly blacking them out due to pain. If you strike the side/back of the head, the force is more transfered to the brain case, which vibrates the fluid, throws the brain, and shocks it (causing unconsciousness or in severe cases, death).

The neck is an excellent target if you want to end the fight quickly. The front of the neck carries the 2 major 'highways' of blood supply to the brain and the entryway for all oxygen to the whole system. The sides of the neck are tense muscle and many sensitive nerves. The back of the neck carries a very important target: the cervical vertebrae. Knife hands (shutos) and hammerfists are excellent for these targets, along with the shoulders close to the base of the neck. It's obvious what happens when you strike the front of the neck, but when you strike the sides you can severely disorient an opponent or shut his legs down. If you hit the cervical vertebrae with a knife hand, you can cause instant unconsciousness/death.

The chest and stomach are much different from the face in terms of energy transferrance from a punch. A 2 knuckle punch isn't quite as effective here because the targets (heart, liver, stomach, ribs) are very 'soft' and give easily. Striking with the entire fist is more sensible for this area, and should be treated alike to a 'push with excessive force' rather than a punch. It's hard to end a fight by bodyshots alone (depending on goals and technique), as you'll notice a boxer uses them to open up the face. The chest is an okay candidate for 2 knuckle strikes, the upper ribs are the best however. It is not necessary to 'snap' your punches with bodyshots because of deformation and movement. Unless you have the opponent up against a wall or the floor a snap punch will just force his body to move out of line before the penetration can really do any serious damage. Almost all fighters will keep their body at an angle (unlike how many MA schools train for some reason), which makes 'spot on' snap strikes quite the chore.

A technique that I use that I feel to be sort of exclusive to me is a snap punch to the inside of the hip. If someone throws a hook for example and I duck, I'll use my bodyweight and downward motion to punch them in the interior of their hip joint, which is EXTREMELY painful and could spell the end of the fight. A spear hand can work here, but it's a gamble (depending on how strong your fingers are).

A 'powerful' punch means so many things. It depends on who you're hitting, where, how, and with what. The tips in posts before this and within this post are good pieces of info (in my opinion) and should prove valuable in your study.

I'm surprised at the number of martial artists on this forum, good to see
8)

koltz
Oct 10, 2006, 08:23 AM
When I punch (outside the ring), I have many different forms. For the head/face I would strike with the 2 prominent knuckles (index/middle). The motion would be a 'snapping' twist through the target. It works very well for hard targets like the skull. There are many nerves and sensitive structures in the face and head, brain not excluded :-D , when stuck with that sort of vicious penetrating force, you can do some very nasty damage to the face. If you strike around the front of the face, around the lips, eyes, and nose, you have a good chance of making their eyes water and possibly blacking them out due to pain. If you strike the side/back of the head, the force is more transfered to the brain case, which vibrates the fluid, throws the brain, and shocks it (causing unconsciousness or in severe cases, death).


That's why I don't take martial arts training........ or boxing

VingTsunMonkey
Oct 10, 2006, 03:19 PM
When I punch (outside the ring), I have many different forms. For the head/face I would strike with the 2 prominent knuckles (index/middle). The motion would be a 'snapping' twist through the target. It works very well for hard targets like the skull. There are many nerves and sensitive structures in the face and head, brain not excluded :-D , when stuck with that sort of vicious penetrating force, you can do some very nasty damage to the face. If you strike around the front of the face, around the lips, eyes, and nose, you have a good chance of making their eyes water and possibly blacking them out due to pain. If you strike the side/back of the head, the force is more transfered to the brain case, which vibrates the fluid, throws the brain, and shocks it (causing unconsciousness or in severe cases, death).


That's why I don't take martial arts training........ or boxing

To avoid injury? Or because the training isn't the same as the street technique?

I always absolutely HATED that arguement. "I don't like boxing because you don't wear gloves on the streets". That's true, sure, but would you box if it were bare knuckle, full force, and no rules? You might as well walk through downtown Detroit with a shirt depicting a lynching and get the same training for free.

Back in the old days in Japan, they're practice technique and weapons on prisoners. Maybe we should do that? :-D

I grew up in a ethnically "tense" neighborhood. I got in a LOT more fights than I would've wanted. Without martial arts training, I would've lost almost all of them. I know the difference between the dojo floor and the concrete. You have to train properly to fight properly.

Moonduck
Oct 10, 2006, 06:58 PM
Anyway, back to punches :roll: :-D

When I punch (outside the ring), I have many different forms. For the head/face I would strike with the 2 prominent knuckles (index/middle). The motion would be a 'snapping' twist through the target.

A proper twist will also have a better chance of causing cuts to open up in the relatively thin skin on the face. If you can do it to the brow ridge, you might just get blood flowing into your opponent's eyes. Never a bad thing.

plancheismine
Oct 11, 2006, 04:17 PM
"I grew up in a ethnically "tense" neighborhood. I got in a LOT more fights than I would've wanted. Without martial arts training, I would've lost almost all of them. I know the difference between the dojo floor and the concrete. You have to train properly to fight properly."
detroit? what ma's did you do when you were younger?

VingTsunMonkey
Oct 11, 2006, 05:09 PM
West side of Saginaw. Basically Detroit part II. I was one of maybe 800 caucasian kids in a 3,000 kid school district. I got bullied a lot and finally got tired of it, started mowing lawns, shoveling driveways, and walking dogs to ride my bike 3 miles to the nearest karate studio, which happened to be Kyokushinkai.

My mother still lives in Saginaw, and humorously enough her car was stolen by a crack dealer and he was later captured resulting in one of the biggest drug busts of the year. What a GREAT town.

plancheismine
Oct 23, 2006, 10:11 PM
West side of Saginaw. Basically Detroit part II. I was one of maybe 800 caucasian kids in a 3,000 kid school district. I got bullied a lot and finally got tired of it, started mowing lawns, shoveling driveways, and walking dogs to ride my bike 3 miles to the nearest karate studio, which happened to be Kyokushinkai.

My mother still lives in Saginaw, and humorously enough her car was stolen by a crack dealer and he was later captured resulting in one of the biggest drug busts of the year. What a GREAT town.
bunch of latinos and brotha's? :D always picking on ppls :x

on a side note from hitting my bag now I have developed more power and stronger punches. i think plain old heavy bag training helps a lot and gets you used to throwing.....i also think the landmine exercise helped.
not really sure how to properly stand though. I just lean back, round my
shoulders, and tuck my chin. :)
I throw some 1,2's and some jab, cross, hook, wild hook haymakers 8) chuck liddel style. :P
200th post 8) 8) 8)

Moonduck
Oct 23, 2006, 10:39 PM
on a side note from hitting my bag now I have developed more power and stronger punches. i think plain old heavy bag training helps a lot and gets you used to throwing.....

Good on ya! Heavy bag training is one of the bestt things you can do. Throwing punches in the air actually reduces your ability to properly throw a punch. You have to "put the brakes on" near the end of every punch or you'll hurt your arm and shoulders. This sort of training causes you to not actually learn to commit fully to a punch. Bad thing that.


i also think the landmine exercise helped.

Landmine exercise?


not really sure how to properly stand though. I just lean back, round my
shoulders, and tuck my chin. :)
I throw some 1,2's and some jab, cross, hook, wild hook haymakers 8) chuck liddel style. :P
200th post 8) 8) 8)

Stand with your feet roughly shoulder width apart. Take a half step back with whatever side you want to the rear in the fight. Pivot slightly on the ball of each foot so you're turned slightly in the direction you just stepped back towards. Round your shoulders and tuck your chin, and bring both hands up, keep em up. Imagine that you are talking into an old style phone handset, and that is where your hands should be (palms towards your face, knuckles towards your foe), and keep those elbows tucked in.

Your jab is easy. Throw the lead fist out, snappy like. The fist should be level with the ground when it hits. Try to snap it level with your wrist as you hit. In a real fight, this will enhance your snap, as well as causing greater chance of superficial skin damage, thus blood. When you jab, pivot your lead foot so that your heel is moving slightly towards your target, and push off slightly with your rear foot. You don't want a lot of weight-transfer with a jab. It's a quick punch, not a strong one.

Your cross is also simple. You fire off your rear fist, crossing slightly in front of yourself. Turn your shoulders by pushing off strong with the rear foot and pivotting your hips and transferring your weight to your front foot quickly. Again, try to snap the wrist at contact. Your shoulder should come up a bit when you throw this one, but make sure your lead arm stays up and in tight, else you'll catch one in the ribs.

The hook is a bit harder to describe in text. Lead hook starts with a dipping of the lead hand down and to the outside, then you sweep it in towards the side of your target. You'll actually push off with your lead foot and push slightly away from your target to get the most power on a lead hook.

A shovel hook is particularly nasty when done right. Step to the front and outside with your lead foot. Drop your fist down a touch. The imagine your elbow attached to yor ribs and waist, and turn your whole torso away from your lead leg while pulling your fist up. The fist will travel in a diagonal path generally into the ribs of your opponent. It's tough to visually, but can really be a fight ender if done right. It will take the wind, and thus the fight, out of someone, if they're not really solid. It's kind of like an uppercut thrown short and with a hooking motion.

The uppercut is the big one, but it is dead tough to train on a heavy bag. An Uppercut Bag is your best bet. Use similar mechanics as described with the shovel hook, but fire the punch up instead of diagonally. It is important to get the weight transfer right on it, and I cannot even begin to describe the movement properly.

Above all, always train with your hands up. If you constantly practice with your hands in the proper position, you'll fight with them in the proper position.

plancheismine
Oct 24, 2006, 06:55 AM
thanks. I was looking in an old encyclopedia and I think I use and old school stance with the lead hand palm (back a little bit too) facing me anyways.
Where did you learn all this stuff from?

plancheismine
Oct 24, 2006, 06:56 AM
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mm6.htm
landmine. mimics something similar to a cross. which i need because I am mainly standing soutpaw and i can't rotate too well that way.
Should i also focus on rotating my hips then just trying to punch fast?

1rickloyd1
Oct 24, 2006, 08:59 AM
since the title of this is stronger punches I thought i would chime in with some advice i read from Bas Rutten. Never throw a jab in mma. What he explains is widening your stance so that even with your jab you still have to rotate your torso a little more, putting more umph in your punch. It works for me and also give me a strong stance to throw kicks from. I still like to throw a small jab when I am moving out or back.

plancheismine
Oct 24, 2006, 02:51 PM
hmmmmm interesting idea but wouldn't that leave you more open to get hit in the jaw? just a square stance?

1rickloyd1
Oct 24, 2006, 03:16 PM
maybe kicked in the head because i am already short and this puts me even lower. Take your normal mma stance not boxing stance and slide your rear foot @ 4 inches out. another bas rule would apply here and that is to hit first. it works for me to get power in my jab. maybe not good for everyone. I have a weak jab.

Moonduck
Oct 24, 2006, 10:41 PM
thanks. I was looking in an old encyclopedia and I think I use and old school stance with the lead hand palm (back a little bit too) facing me anyways.
Where did you learn all this stuff from?

Here and there. My Kempo instructor was a Silver Gloves boxer, and quickly realised how much I prefered boxing, so I started getting more and mor einstruction in boxing and American kickboxing. Also I went through a period in Junior High where I was working with a buddy whose dream it was to box professionally. You pick up a lot trying to help someone else learn. Eventually, I got into JKD, and they flat teach boxing as a solid punching style.

Overall, it's just what I absorbed the most of all the handwork I've done. Nothing feels quite so natural and effective to my body as Western boxing when it comes to striking. with kicks, it's a combo of Kempo style lead kicks and Muay Thai heavy rear kicks.

This is one of the core concepts of JKD, and why I like it so much. You will always perform better when the technique works with you body type and construction. Take Ving Tsun, for example, my knees and hips flat refuse to take the purposefully narrow stance that VT prefers. I can't do it. At that point, VT, no matter how good, won't work for me. Boxing does work. So I enjoy it, and I retain it.

As to the Jab, MMA, and Bas Rutten, Bas doesn't jab largely because his style has no use for the jab. There's nothing wrong with the jab, and it is one of the most useful punches in boxing. Bas just doesn't have a need for it in his style. He practices a strong lead similar to various other styles. Personally, I prefer to use both. Best to train for a strong lead (a la the strong lead vertical fist strikes that Bruce Lee was so fond of) and the quick, snappy jab favoured by the under-heavyweight boxers.

And, as an aside, I fight southpaw too even though I'm right-handed. I'd rather have my strong-side in the lead. Makes more sense to me. Then again, I tend to work jabs and lead hooks, largely because I have a strong (if slow) jab, and a viscious lead hook. It's my best punch, bar none.

plancheismine
Oct 25, 2006, 06:50 AM
well i wrestle with my right leg in front so if i ever got into mma.....
I just have a stronger and quicker right hand so my jab is way more stunning on southpaw, i just can't rotate as good from my left side. but if i fight orthodox my jab isn't so good but my right cross and upper cut is.
JUst the pros and cons

Moonduck
Oct 25, 2006, 07:28 AM
Go southpaw then. A stronger cross is not worth losing the practiced timing and motions you've drilled into your body with your wrestling. I also grappled strong side forward, and that is another reason I chose southpaw. The rotational issues on the left side were a problem of mine too. So I had a lot of the same reasons for going strong lead. Glad to see that you're thinking about it seriously though.

plancheismine
Oct 25, 2006, 07:33 PM
with practice my cross power will improve, just no used to it yet. I also throw big kicks.
you have done sambo for grappling, right?

Moonduck
Oct 25, 2006, 08:23 PM
with practice my cross power will improve, just no used to it yet. I also throw big kicks.
you have done sambo for grappling, right?

Yup, it was great fun, and excellent exercise, not to mention being an effective style.

plancheismine
Oct 25, 2006, 09:01 PM
yeahhh i like boxing now. :D

Moonduck
Oct 25, 2006, 09:34 PM
yeahhh i like boxing now. :D

It's good stuff. Title Boxing has a series of training DVD's for boxing, both conditioning and technique. Some pretty good stuff in there, and you can find them pretty cheap on Ebay usually.

All this talk about boxing has gotten me into the mood, so I've been doing some shadow-boxing here and there between sets. Bit of a bad idea for me, as I need to cool down a bit between sets, not heat up more =)

Chico
Nov 18, 2006, 01:38 PM
For stronger punches, punch on a heavy bag, do pushups and one arm pushups if you can and do bench press

Get_Money
Nov 21, 2006, 01:37 PM
The best way to punch harder is to : get low and lean forward a little. Having your body down low creates incredible potential energy for punching. Once in this position, practice proper technique while going hard on the heavy bag. This is the only way to really punch hard. You can get as strong as you want but without these techniques your punch will be nothing.

Sepanto
Feb 02, 2007, 04:07 PM
As far as I know, the main principle of making strong punches is to punch with the whole body, not only with the arm/shoulder. A punch from a monster-man who punches with only his arm is weaker than a punch from a guy 27 Kg's lighter than him, who uses ab-rotating and leg-springing.

plancheismine
Feb 03, 2007, 12:55 PM
As far as I know, the main principle of making strong punches is to punch with the whole body, not only with the arm/shoulder. A punch from a monster-man who punches with only his arm is weaker than a punch from a guy 27 Kg's lighter than him, who uses ab-rotating and leg-springing.

EXACTLY RIGHT

Moonduck
Feb 03, 2007, 03:54 PM
EXACTLY RIGHT

But only half of the equation.

IronWolverine
Nov 02, 2009, 04:04 AM
fars as this goes,strengthen the shoulders, obqlique dont know how to spell that word and wrist.do alot of rotations with your core.that generate speed.wrist with a strong wrist,it like you canpunch through someone lol. shoulder help with the punches too!

plus hit the heavy bag and do some isometric.

vostok
Dec 05, 2009, 05:11 AM
brass knuckles

TheMasterKey
Dec 05, 2009, 02:06 PM
A hard punch is all technique.

Journeyman
Dec 05, 2009, 05:11 PM
Guys. This is just another thread resurrected by ironwolverine....

But it's part technique, part strength (from legs, core, and shoulders mainly), and part natural.

TheMasterKey
Dec 05, 2009, 05:58 PM
But it's part technique, part strength (from legs, core, and shoulders mainly), and part natural.

Here is a real life example of why I said technique:

A friend of mine has been weightlifting for something around 10+ years. He's very strong with the weights. He's MUCH stronger than I am. He's around 5'8 and 210lbs (mostly muscle). I'm 5'10 and 160lbs. Occasionally, he'll come to the boxing gym with me. When we're both hitting the heavybag at the same time, I hit harder. The only way I see this as possible is that I've spent MUCH more time practicing shadowboxing, hitting the heavy bag, etc. aka - I have superior punching technique.

Journeyman
Dec 05, 2009, 06:24 PM
Yes of course. But Strength does have a lot to do with it, at least once you know how to punch.

Think about this. If you worked until you were as strong as that friend of yours, there's no question that you'd hit much harder.

AshersUK
Dec 07, 2009, 11:57 AM
I agree that power starts from the legs, I fight orthodox so my lead leg is my left leg, my lead hand is my left hand.

When I jab (lead hand), my hips twist as my shoulder covers my chin as my arm extends.

When I straight (rear hand) my lead foot digs in the ground, my REAR FOOT pivots on the spot as my hips twist and again my shoulder covers my chin as my arm extends.

When I hook (lead hand), my rear foot digs in the gound, my LEAD FOOT pivots on the spot as my hips twist and in the same movement and as my shoulder covers my chin, I bring my elbow up as my arm extends/swings into the punch.

When I uppercut (rear hand), as I kickbox it's typically different to normal boxing, I almost go into a crouch, bent knees, guard up high, both feet on the ground. This time I twist hips to the right and lean right and drive the fist upwards, as well as twisting my hips left, while my arm extends and hopefully lands on the chin.

The same principle is applied wether you're going for body shots or head shots. Body shots have more lean in them but the hips still do the same.

Practise this, the technique is what you need to master. You will discover the power behind your punches the better your technique gets. You'll be suprised what power you already have.