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Jun 05, 2006, 07:18 PM
What is the best body weight work out for Boxing and MMA.
I heard that Mike Tyson did allot of body weight exercises. Any idea which one's.

My second question, can you get as good with BW exercise as you would with weights?

Jun 08, 2006, 10:00 AM
I am sure that you can.
It is just that many body weight exericise are skills themselves.
For example it takes a while to learn how to do handstand push ups.
But you can get a barbell and do military presses.

Which leads me to another question, which I am about to make into a separate thread.

Jun 09, 2006, 06:31 PM
Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Jun 09, 2006, 07:10 PM
Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

guitarzan56
Jul 12, 2006, 05:55 PM
Most of the UFC guys do as much bodyweight training as anything else they do.

Power calisthenics, DVRs, Isometrics, etc, will all contribute to being a better fighter. Of course, cardio is extremely important as well and is the one part of training that bores the daylights out of me, but I need the most!

Jul 12, 2006, 06:00 PM
Most of the UFC guys do as much bodyweight training as anything else they do.

Power calisthenics, DVRs, Isometrics, etc, will all contribute to being a better fighter. Of course, cardio is extremely important as well and is the one part of training that bores the daylights out of me, but I need the most!

What kind of cardio do you do that's boring?

guitarzan56
Jul 14, 2006, 12:44 AM
I usually use the treadmill. We don't have a long running/walking season here in Syracuse (sometimes it even snows in May).

I'm the type of guy who yells at the microwave to hurry up and is fascinated by bright, shiny objects, so repetitive motion justs saps the motivation right out of me.

I would probably be best served by participating in sports like basketball or soccer ( I think they are both excellent for cardio fitness), but I work in retail management for a large music store, teach guitar, and play in three bands (it's tough to earn a living around here) which leaves me barely enough time for martial arts, isometrics, and DVRs. The other downside is I would have to learn those sports! I was a football guy in school and that was about it for me as far as mainstream sports went.

TO
Jul 17, 2006, 08:56 AM
When Tyson was in jail, I read that he did lots of squats. He'd use a deck of playing cards, squat, pick up a card, squat, stack the card, squat, pick up new card, squat, etc.

As for the effectiveness of bodyweight training for fighting, I'd also read that in order to try-out for some open MMA tournaments you'd have to do 500 body weight squats, 100-200 push-ups, and a similar number of sit-ups for time. You won't get this kind of muscle endurance from conventional iron pumping. If this is the minimum fitness level for these fighters, that's good enough for me.

Rick
Jul 17, 2006, 02:59 PM
Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

Absolutely, no question. People were so much tougher back in those days it is absolutely pathetic how much the physical strength of men declined from the olden days. I'll bet any one of our modern fighters would get ass whuped by guys like "farmer burns", Frank Gotch, Ed "the Strangler" Lewis, or Kimura.

koltz
Jul 17, 2006, 03:10 PM
well there was that bruce lee guy... some people say he was only an actor but if you move like him I bet you can hit somewhat hard can't ya? and he did tons of BW stuff

Jul 17, 2006, 04:05 PM
Ok, here is the deal. I was researching this question for at least ten years now.

Two guys working on over head presses. One does free standing hand stand presses on two chairs and the other does poundage of over head presses.
Obviously one will not be able to do what the other one can do.

Who most likely will win the strong man competition? The metal lifting guy? We know that.
What about fighting who will win? Eitherone can win. The bodyweight handstand pressing guy will not be as strong as someone who shoulder presses 2 times their body weight. But the BW guy still has more than enough strength, that if he uses it correctly he can win a fight.

There you go. :-k

koltz
Jul 17, 2006, 05:01 PM
The one whos more skilled will win.
even if he can't overhead press half of his weight

but there are crazy progressions to over head presses that quite frankly are inhuman but within the reach of someone who can press 2x BW overhead(as if htat;s any human lol)

Appleman
Jul 17, 2006, 08:07 PM
The one whos more skilled will win.
even if he can't overhead press half of his weight

but there are crazy progressions to over head presses that quite frankly are inhuman but within the reach of someone who can press 2x BW overhead(as if htat;s any human lol)

The skilled one usually wins, but strength never hurt anyone.

Speaking of the army, how much strength does it take to have a good aim and to shoot? Yet they still want you to be strong.
P.S. Probably bad example. :?

bobster_ice
Jul 22, 2006, 07:25 AM
Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

koltz
Jul 22, 2006, 07:35 AM
Ross lifts a LOT.

infact on the cover of one of his books hes doing a one arm dumbell sntach.

and the does a lot of jump rope, isn't that lifting?

bobster_ice
Jul 22, 2006, 07:45 AM
Yeah but he dosnt do benchpress and stuff, yes he still lifts things like medicine balls and stuff but I dont think he lifts big stuff.

koltz
Jul 22, 2006, 07:50 AM
http://www.rosstraining.com/infiniteintensity.html

Thoose dumbells look like there 80lbs each at least maybe 100...
pretty big ,

nevertheless a lot of top MMA fighters bench over 600 for example tank abbot, resistance is resistance be it a weight or your own body

Antaeus
Jul 26, 2006, 05:49 PM
Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Jul 27, 2006, 10:23 AM
Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Yes, but Fureys physique shows nothing. :?

speedy
Jul 27, 2006, 12:37 PM
Physique also consists of how much you eat, and burn in your workouts. Comparing by looks alone is the wrong way to go. I judge by what they can do. Personally, I am ver leary about Furey with all the negative shit about him floating around. Also, the pricies he charge for the things he charges them for are really outrageous.

Jul 28, 2006, 08:42 AM
Let's not forget. MF or RE they are not waisting their time with those books or video just to have fun. Everyone needs to eat. They are here to make money. It is more apperant with Furey than with Ross, but at the end it's the same. They do what they believe will sell. Furey has this pictures of himself when he was in shape. This picture is probably old, but he uses it. If he could be in great shape, he would use those pictures too.
Everyone does what they believe will bring the most income.

I would like to point to Monks, most endolge in bodyweight training and yet they can fight very well.

Jul 28, 2006, 08:44 AM
[quote="

I would like to point to Monks, most endolge in bodyweight training and yet they can fight very well.[/quote]

Are you sure Furey did not train the Monks in his secret methods of combat ? :lol:

speedy
Jul 28, 2006, 11:34 AM
Sounds like Howard Stern when he begins to rant on how he invented everything.

Jul 28, 2006, 11:36 AM
I may be 100% wrong. It just sounds like the guy took his hobby of working out and somehow made busness out of it. Package info and sell it.

speedy
Jul 28, 2006, 11:39 AM
If he did that or not, I don't see any reason to look down on it. To me my workouts is a hobby, but with benefits.

koltz
Jul 28, 2006, 11:43 AM
Well ross has expiriance on working out he has the kind of body the main part of the population would want to have so he made a few books about it there stuff there that's worth paying for if you are stupid and can't figure out moves to trian each part of the body on your own(like made rollups up , by the way the tendons on my pecs are sore for two days now jsut after 2 sets , Iwould reccomend thoose but I deleted the thread on them =\)

Jul 28, 2006, 11:47 AM
Well ross has expiriance on working out he has the kind of body the main part of the population would want to have so he made a few books about it there stuff there that's worth paying for if you are stupid and can't figure out moves to trian each part of the body on your own(like made rollups up , by the way the tendons on my pecs are sore for two days now jsut after 2 sets , Iwould reccomend thoose but I deleted the thread on them =\)

What roll ups?

koltz
Jul 28, 2006, 12:27 PM
It's a move I made up for the pecs , doing it for full ROM w\ two arms is harder then perfect one arm pushups I made a lot of explanations about how the move works from a lto of tests Ive made with this(And I am darn sore after them lol)
it's a good move thats easy to do for the weak or stronger ppl just by doign different parts of the range of motion

but it never go any serious attention or people trying it so I deleted it (the thread now is edited and what I could delete i did) to keep it for myself , I will probably post this when the forums get more active / we get to know the admins more they don't talk much only on PMs =\

Jul 28, 2006, 04:35 PM
It's a move I made up for the pecs , doing it for full ROM w\ two arms is harder then perfect one arm pushups I made a lot of explanations about how the move works from a lto of tests Ive made with this(And I am darn sore after them lol)
it's a good move thats easy to do for the weak or stronger ppl just by doign different parts of the range of motion

but it never go any serious attention or people trying it so I deleted it (the thread now is edited and what I could delete i did) to keep it for myself , I will probably post this when the forums get more active / we get to know the admins more they don't talk much only on PMs =\

I tried it bro. That's the one with arms comming out to the sides in push up position with dumbells in both arms?
If you want to know what happened- My outter pecs got unbelievable sore and I did not try it again. :(
It's good stuff though.
Here is something I will do, you may try it as well.
Do dumbell push ups, and move the hands out more and more and do push ups like that. At least maybe that a good way to warm up for it.

koltz
Jul 29, 2006, 03:45 AM
Nice idea for db pushups. it seems there isn't really a limit to what you can do with your bodyweight some stuff to hold on to and a creative mind :D

Also outer pecs don't exist , but I had them sore too I came up with a move that trains inexsistent muscle fibers :o

Aug 01, 2006, 07:07 AM
Haha,
when people say outer pecs, they mean the pectoralis tendon which is at the insertion into the humerus.

Wraith
Aug 01, 2006, 09:36 AM
Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross does both and his physique shows it.

Yes, but Fureys physique shows nothing. :?

http://www.knockoutmarketing.com/images/furey_waterfall.jpg

He looks to have some sizable pecs there.

Let's not forget Fedor who also does bodyweight exercises...

http://ca1n.c.yimg.jp/sports/sn2005082700124200020612m/sportsnavi.yahoo.co.jp/fight/pict/200508/im00020612.jpg

Aug 03, 2006, 12:29 PM
Haha
Fefor?

The man can fight, but is no model. I guess he doesn't do the BW in such a way to show off his body.

koltz
Aug 03, 2006, 12:57 PM
His arms appear tio be 17 or 16 inches... maybe not an underwear model but hes got tons of mass for a BW trainee

oh and the pecs on that other guy above feder are uneven ...

Aug 04, 2006, 08:54 AM
You can be in much better shape with BW exercises than those two guys.
Furey is middle age, I don't know how old Fedor is.

Wraith
Aug 04, 2006, 09:54 AM
I don't know exactly what you mean by in better shape, cause from a performance perspective, Fedor is then in incredible shape. I am guessing you mean looks in good shape.

Here's a link to a pic of a guy who does purely bodyweight exercises. His workout is a bit insane, like 3 sets of 1000 calf raises, and 3 sets of 100 push-ups.

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2265

Aug 04, 2006, 10:44 AM
I don't know exactly what you mean by in better shape, cause from a performance perspective, Fedor is then in incredible shape. I am guessing you mean looks in good shape.

Here's a link to a pic of a guy who does purely bodyweight exercises. His workout is a bit insane, like 3 sets of 1000 calf raises, and 3 sets of 100 push-ups.

http://www.rosstraining.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2265

F1 Posts here too. lol
Fedor may be a better fighter, but most people rather look like F1.

Danootje
Feb 24, 2007, 01:04 PM
well; if i got to believe the book i just downloaded.. yes you can..

i'm doing 3 days thaiboxing and on the other days i do bodyweight exercises at home; which really make me alot stronger!

hindu squats & hindu pushups(!) should be done a lot in my opinion!

you might want to take a look at the book of matt furey: combat condition
you can download it with limewire.

crazydan
Feb 24, 2007, 05:33 PM
the guy above fedor is matt furey. and that picture was taken while he was still lifting weights.

crisgaecar
Feb 24, 2007, 06:16 PM
when you speak of being strong doing squat Hindu and Hindu pushup, you will only win strenght endurance. but you forget max strength, speed strength, explosive strength.
I in my training incorporate everything, max stremgth (one arm pushup, one arm pullup, pistol, isometric training), strenght endurance (bodyweight squat, burpees, pushup, pullup), explosive strenght (plyo pushup, jump squat, jump lunge, depht plyo pushup, power over, clapping pullup), speed strength (isometric workout for speed).
since you see you can incorporate more exercises to have major profit.

cheesedog
Feb 24, 2007, 08:14 PM
To crisgaecar:

I like what you wrote above but I have one question. How do you do an isometric workout for speed-strength?

crazydan
Feb 24, 2007, 10:53 PM
IMO. you should incorporate everything. Weights, bodyweight, Isos, etc

crisgaecar
Feb 25, 2007, 07:46 AM
To crisgaecar:

I like what you wrote above but I have one question. How do you do an isometric workout for speed-strength?

I use three types of protocols for the isometric trainings:
1.-maximum effort isometric
2.-explosive isometric (for speed)
3.-static dinamic isometric

the exposive isometric:
it consists of generating the biggest possible tension for short periods of time (ex-, 1 to 3 second). the target is to accelerate with the biggest force and possible speed.
this type of training is very effective to gain speed in your handles and kicks, I use it with another purpose (I do not practise combat sport).

crazydan
Feb 25, 2007, 02:24 PM
how do you do the other 2?

crisgaecar
Feb 25, 2007, 02:44 PM
maximum effort isometric:se applies the biggest tension on a structure inmobil, it is necessary to generate tension rapidly and it is necessary to support for periods from 3 until 5 seconds.

static dynamic isometric: it is the combination of isometric and dynamic work, you must begin with an isometric brief work (3 to 5 seconds of wall press), followed of explosive dynamic work (plyo pushup), the parentisis are only examples

crazydan
Feb 25, 2007, 02:58 PM
o alright thanks. How mnany days a week do you do isometrics? also how many days do you do each type of isometrics?

crisgaecar
Feb 25, 2007, 03:08 PM
o alright thanks. How mnany days a week do you do isometrics? also how many days do you do each type of isometrics?

it depends on that period of my training, but isometric work realized 2 to 4 days a week

Razor
Feb 25, 2007, 03:39 PM
Is it safe to do isometrics on an off day from bw training when I do only 2 sets of exercises? Or does it stop the muscles from resting?

crisgaecar
Feb 25, 2007, 03:46 PM
Is it safe to do isometrics on an off day from bw training when I do only 2 sets of exercises? Or does it stop the muscles from resting?

you can do isometric in the same day that you trained, but you have 2 options,
1.-isometric training immediately after your training
2.-isometric training 8 hours after your training (it is more advisable), remembers that a workout of isometric must not last any more than 10 min (it removes very little time)

musclemat
Feb 28, 2007, 09:27 AM
Yes you can.

Do you think ancient fighters trained at Jack Lalane?

Do you think ancient fighters could take on our modern fighters?

hell yeah.they were tougher. they didnt spend time on treadmills, or twisting around with medecine balls.
ancient fighters ran up hills, climbed mountains, ran with rocks and used tree trunks as punch bags.

crazydan
Feb 28, 2007, 06:49 PM
do you know this for a fact? im just wondering? i really am interested Im actually gonna look it up now.

crashnburn
Jan 13, 2009, 01:45 PM
Most of the UFC guys do as much bodyweight training as anything else they do.

Power calisthenics, DVRs, Isometrics, etc, will all contribute to being a better fighter. Of course, cardio is extremely important as well and is the one part of training that bores the daylights out of me, but I need the most!


When Tyson was in jail, I read that he did lots of squats. He'd use a deck of playing cards, squat, pick up a card, squat, stack the card, squat, pick up new card, squat, etc.

As for the effectiveness of bodyweight training for fighting, I'd also read that in order to try-out for some open MMA tournaments you'd have to do 500 body weight squats, 100-200 push-ups, and a similar number of sit-ups for time. You won't get this kind of muscle endurance from conventional iron pumping. If this is the minimum fitness level for these fighters, that's good enough for me.


well; if i got to believe the book i just downloaded.. yes you can..

i'm doing 3 days thaiboxing and on the other days i do bodyweight exercises at home; which really make me alot stronger!

hindu squats & hindu pushups(!) should be done a lot in my opinion!

you might want to take a look at the book of matt furey: combat condition
you can download it with limewire.


when you speak of being strong doing squat Hindu and Hindu pushup, you will only win strenght endurance. but you forget max strength, speed strength, explosive strength.
I in my training incorporate everything, max stremgth (one arm pushup, one arm pullup, pistol, isometric training), strenght endurance (bodyweight squat, burpees, pushup, pullup), explosive strenght (plyo pushup, jump squat, jump lunge, depht plyo pushup, power over, clapping pullup), speed strength (isometric workout for speed).
since you see you can incorporate more exercises to have major profit.


I use three types of protocols for the isometric trainings:
1.-maximum effort isometric
2.-explosive isometric (for speed)
3.-static dinamic isometric

the exposive isometric:
it consists of generating the biggest possible tension for short periods of time (ex-, 1 to 3 second). the target is to accelerate with the biggest force and possible speed.
this type of training is very effective to gain speed in your handles and kicks, I use it with another purpose (I do not practise combat sport).


maximum effort isometric:se applies the biggest tension on a structure inmobil, it is necessary to generate tension rapidly and it is necessary to support for periods from 3 until 5 seconds.

static dynamic isometric: it is the combination of isometric and dynamic work, you must begin with an isometric brief work (3 to 5 seconds of wall press), followed of explosive dynamic work (plyo pushup), the parentisis are only examples


you can do isometric in the same day that you trained, but you have 2 options,
1.-isometric training immediately after your training
2.-isometric training 8 hours after your training (it is more advisable), remembers that a workout of isometric must not last any more than 10 min (it removes very little time)

I'd like to learn more and have someone guide me to create a BW Workout for my goals.

Can anyone help?

Dave.cyco
Jan 13, 2009, 01:50 PM
Yes. The links in my sig will give you all the info you need.

Bissen
Jan 15, 2009, 11:02 AM
Pretty sure the gladiators did pretty well... And just think about the Shaolin monks. They're awesome!

Fatman
Jan 16, 2009, 07:20 AM
Not sure about gladiators, but the Shaolin use weights extensively in their training.

Which inspires me to consider writing an article about it over the weekend. After I attempt the 200-lb front squat challenge, of course.

stevenl
Jan 17, 2009, 08:38 PM
Just fighting a lot will make you a better fighter. That's the most important part. You could do NO exercise except for fighting and be a complete and total bad ass.

Bissen
Jan 18, 2009, 04:13 AM
Take a look at Ross Enamait's books. He's a boxer, and his bodyweight workouts kick ass!

gilstrap
Jan 18, 2009, 05:46 AM
im becoming a bit worried with all these threads about becoming a good fighter , is there such a thing as a good fighter , its a bit of a paradox the art of fighting is basically bad so your aim should be to become a bad fighter , i would like to see some threads on exercises to make you a good person then perhaps we wouldnt need exercises to become a good fighter but perhaps im dreaming.......:(

Dave.cyco
Jan 18, 2009, 03:32 PM
I'm right there with you Gil. While knowledge of fighting for the purpose of self defense, or fighting for a (legitimately) just cause are useful in this world, knowing how to properly be a good person and acting on it is the only sure way to leave this world without fear.

People don't often think about death it seems, these days. What thoughts go through a person's mind though, as they lay on their death bed, knowing that they will not see tomorrow? Such thoughts are easily dismissed by those of us who are strong and independant, but when it comes down to crunch time, are we going to be ready for it? Will we leave this world in joy and peace, or with fear and trembling?

JackPols
Feb 25, 2009, 03:25 PM
I can become a party to the conversation?

Fatman
Feb 25, 2009, 03:35 PM
No, but you can get banned for spamming :)

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:27 PM
When Tyson was in jail, I read that he did lots of squats. He'd use a deck of playing cards, squat, pick up a card, squat, stack the card, squat, pick up new card, squat, etc.

As for the effectiveness of bodyweight training for fighting, I'd also read that in order to try-out for some open MMA tournaments you'd have to do 500 body weight squats, 100-200 push-ups, and a similar number of sit-ups for time. You won't get this kind of muscle endurance from conventional iron pumping. If this is the minimum fitness level for these fighters, that's good enough for me.

Ever tried doing high rep complexes with a 16 kg kettlebell?

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:29 PM
Ancient fighters did both weight training (stone lifting, leverage club swinging) as well as calisthenics. Both are valid.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:35 PM
Ok, here is the deal. I was researching this question for at least ten years now.

Two guys working on over head presses. One does free standing hand stand presses on two chairs and the other does poundage of over head presses.
Obviously one will not be able to do what the other one can do.

Who most likely will win the strong man competition? The metal lifting guy? We know that.
What about fighting who will win? Eitherone can win. The bodyweight handstand pressing guy will not be as strong as someone who shoulder presses 2 times their body weight. But the BW guy still has more than enough strength, that if he uses it correctly he can win a fight.

There you go. :-k

The metal lifting guy will probably have better legs since he used his whole body for those overhead presses. Than handstand guy will probably just have a tremendous upper body and really small legs. lol.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:37 PM
Have you ever been on Ross Enamaits website or Matt Fureys site?


Those two are great fighters and all they do are B/W exercises.

Ross lifts weights now. He does alot of one-dumbell work. He has been into sand bag and keg lifting for a while as well.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:40 PM
Yeah but he dosnt do benchpress and stuff, yes he still lifts things like medicine balls and stuff but I dont think he lifts big stuff.

kegs and sand bags can be big stuff. Trust me.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:46 PM
Yes, but Fureys physique shows nothing. :?

Yup. From what I have heard the pic of him at Niagra Falls or wherever it is, used in his combat conditioning ads in magazines, is back when he was a huge advocate for odd object lifting. Matt Furey now tries to hide his physique. He is not as lean as he once was. But he does have an ancient wrestlers build now.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:53 PM
well there was that bruce lee guy... some people say he was only an actor but if you move like him I bet you can hit somewhat hard can't ya? and he did tons of BW stuff

He did tons of everything.

GGG
Feb 25, 2009, 11:56 PM
Just fighting a lot will make you a better fighter. That's the most important part. You could do NO exercise except for fighting and be a complete and total bad ass.

Very true.

JackPols
Feb 26, 2009, 03:01 AM
I can become a party to the conversation?

JackPols
Feb 26, 2009, 06:22 AM
I like to have seen discussion of this topic in this forum

JackPols
Feb 26, 2009, 06:30 AM
I can become a party to the conversation?

bodylifter
Mar 21, 2009, 09:04 PM
It is extremely posible to get an excellent work out from BW exercises for Boxing and MMA. However, to just "grab" a buch of exercises and start a program. You have to figure out what you need to work on. Whats the weakest part of my body? That way you don't over develop one portion of your body and end up hurting yourself in the long run. Once your body is pretty close to being at the same level then you redesign your work out to a more evenly balanced all over body work out.

ejempire
May 12, 2009, 10:29 AM
plyometric b/w exercises are good for any fighting or martial arts training as it helps build explosiveness. which i would say is very important for any fighter. fair enough you can have some kind of super strength but if you dont have the explosiveness or power to deliver it then its not going to be as effective as you would like it to be..

martin armstrong
Apr 22, 2011, 01:06 PM
Many fighters use whatever training equipment they have at their disposal, to get a competitive edge, whether it would be for street self defense applications or for combative sports. Be it, with the implementation of a weights training program or other methodologies.

I have heard from one source that conditioning is the most important element of fitness training for the Mixed Martial Artist. Conditioning to mean Cardio Fitness (Anaerobic type) and Muscular Endurance.

I recommend 2 books that I have in my own personal library that I am using at the moment are from Marcus Fisher.com, which cover these fitness areas :-

Kick Ass Conditioning

and Solo Conditioning.



Both programmes contain sport specific bodyweight exercises relating to the sport of MMA to enhance these fitness elements.

mattseefood
May 02, 2011, 11:11 AM
I've seen a lot of MMA fighters doing mix bodyweight and weight lifting workouts! They're all over the internet. Try to search for some of their exercise routines.

rippedal
Sep 05, 2011, 09:12 PM
Although I am merely 2 months into the world of bw training, I have down tons of reading and I will give my 2 cents. If fighting is your main concern, and you had to pick between bw training or weight training, I would definately say BW TRAINING is the way to go. BW training helps develop more functional strength than weight training does. Just take a look at all the Parkour guys and even many top fighers, Manny Paquioa, Geroges St Pierre, Gracie family, Bruce Lee, Bj Penn, etc. All of them are far from BROLIC (like your typical gym rat), but they are diff chiseled lean guys. Now I'm not knocking weight training, it is def good if your goal is to achieve big, flashy muscles. If getting into combat shape is your goal, I think bw is the way to go! I mentioned the parkour guys, look at their bodies, when have you seen a brolic gym rat doing parkour? NEVER. If there is some out there, please prove me wrong. What i'm getting at is that the parkour guys(also the fighters ive mentioned) have CUT UP, LEAN and most important AGILE bodies. In a fight, big muscles will only get you so far, agility and functional strength will win the bout. That agility is something weight training just doesn't provide.

woodthing
Sep 09, 2011, 11:47 PM
Part of what made ancient fighters so tough was the attitude they had about fighting and training. First, those were one and the same for them. Second, if you were a fighter in the ancient world then you were a fighter all the time. They didn't have any other occupation. Training was an all-day-every-day thing. I also think that they had significant advantages simply by the environment that they worked in, outside. That is a much more engaging place to train, period.

ChrisTG
Sep 11, 2011, 10:05 PM
Too many people consider 'weight training' with bodybuilding type exercises (such as every exercise machine and any movement designed to target a muscle or give a pump or whatever). I mean for the parkour example, have you ever seen a parkour guy one arm press 300lbs or twist a steel horseshoe into a pretzel with their bare hands? The idea that 'weight training' is just for big slow muscles is a myth- bodybuilding training is NOT weight training, it is a part of weight training, like how pushups are a part of bodyweight training. Who is better in a fight? Whoever can utilize their strengths and their opponents weaknesses the best. Their fighting styles are different, and both are effective. Sure the 150lb martial artist always wins vs the 300lb bar brawler, but not if they have similar levels of martial arts fighting experience. Martial arts is an advantage that usually beats strength, but if it's equal than being stronger is an advantage.

Old wrestlers in Greece didn't have barbells, but the story of Milo carrying a calf on his shoulders each day as it grew into a cow is a great example of progressive overload, and stone lifting is very ancient but probably stretches back to the very beginning of human civilization. I think it comes down to the fact that the human body can do only two things- it can move itself around, and it can move other stuff around.

If you train in fighting you will be fast from that, it's not like bw will train your punch to get faster, it will make your arms stronger but to punch fast, you practice punching fast. You'd do that with bw or weight training, in either case your fighting training is going to determine your fighting speed, not your exercises.

Most successful fighters don't limit their training, they do what WORKS. The most important is to be good at fighting, and then to be great you need to have a balance of everything. You need to be stronger than the other guy, but you also need to be able to be stronger in the end of the fight. The end result of your training though, is what you train- if all you do is 1 rep singles with huge weights, you'll get insanely strong but you won't have any endurance- this doesn't mean that heavy singles are garbage for fighting, because they're probably one of the best ways to gain max strength- and not pack on too many extra lbs of muscle. But you need to train endurance and strength endurance, so that you can continue to put out a lot of strength later into the fight. But you need to be training to get that strength in the first place. You have to know what you need, and use the best tool available to fulfill that need- be it bodyweight, a barbell, a big heavy rock or a hill to sprint up.

arnoldus
Oct 25, 2011, 06:25 AM
It depends on the exact goal, but in general: no, you need weights. This doesn't mean that pushups, pistols or pullups are to be forgotten.

Henchman
Jun 01, 2012, 06:14 PM
When I trained in kickboxing and submission grappling, we mixed in both weights and bodyweight exercises.
The pros who came to the gym also trained the same way.

But I don't think it really matters either way. I think what really matters is how you utilize those exercises so that they can help condition you for combat.
Spartans, for example, were one of the most fierce warriors and all they used, from what I've read, were bodyweight exercises to condition themselves.

Henchman
Jun 01, 2012, 06:48 PM
EDIT: My bad. Didn't mean to post the same thing twice. I thought my original reply to the OP wasn't up. I see it now.

Journeyman
Jun 01, 2012, 07:01 PM
Thread revival ftw. OP hasn't posted on this site for like 5 years.

Fatman has a good article on the 'greek' training. Lots of stonelifting/throwing, weighted runs, etc.

Respeezy
Jun 09, 2012, 06:36 PM
When Tyson was in jail, I read that he did lots of squats. He'd use a deck of playing cards, squat, pick up a card, squat, stack the card, squat, pick up new card, squat, etc.

As for the effectiveness of bodyweight training for fighting, I'd also read that in order to try-out for some open MMA tournaments you'd have to do 500 body weight squats, 100-200 push-ups, and a similar number of sit-ups for time. You won't get this kind of muscle endurance from conventional iron pumping. If this is the minimum fitness level for these fighters, that's good enough for me.

I have no idea if this is truth , but it sounds like nonsense , i don't think any of the top heavyweight fighters, can do 100-200 push ups.

Journeyman
Jun 09, 2012, 06:55 PM
It doesn't sound too far fetched, if someone like that started doing similar numbers when they were young and kept it up throughout their training.

Ken shamrock made 500 squats and 200 pushups a requirement to join his gym iirc.

Are you going to post anything other than rather conventional opinions about MA's? No offense, but you've bumped several old threads just now.