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ijs
Apr 07, 2009, 12:18 AM
I have had a few amateur MT fights (where there were MMA fights as well), mostly in Saskatchewan, and as I have a few sociology, anthropology, and psychology courses I have made a few observations about martial arts and what sort of people different martial arts attract. I want to know if you folks agree with me. As a general observation it seems that MMA attracts (at least initially) the more violent population of young men. The sort of people who lack self-control; having an "I will beat the shit out of you" attitude. This is could be the result of the young person trying to find some measure of control in their life and find the power of the UFC fighters (and their trashtalking) appealing.

Contrary to this are the more traditional MA's that I have experienced (either personal or noted through others). The more traditional MA's seem to emphasize a philosophy of self-control that is integral to the art form (this philosophy may be overt or covert).

I have also noticed that the more combative MAs seem to be a tad darwinian. The stress and pain of the training and fights cause the the weaker or less focused fighters to leave. This seems to present a problem (albeit a self-solving one) as now there are a number of drop-outs who have not been in the sport long enough to learn discipline yet are more skilled fighters than others, leading to more violent actions.

These are just some things that I have noted in my limited experience. What do you think of my observations?

pasychosheep
Apr 08, 2009, 01:56 PM
I pretty much agree with you on all counts.

Also, MMA has become a new buzzword. MMA "schools" are popping up around here faster than tae kwon do schools did back in the nineties, most of them owned and operated by those drop-out fighters you speak of.

olinek
Apr 08, 2009, 03:33 PM
What I do know is that once I was smoking a sesh with some people and this little shrimp fuckbag kid was there. Anyways he proceeded to tell me how he was training with a UFC fighter... then he showed me a set of brass knuckles with a big blade sticking out on one side. The thing is it was the kind of weapon you might find in one of those Chinese junk stores with a bunch of cheap weapon replicas.. Anyways the kid was a terd.

You could make the case both ways. Maybe traditional martial arts attract... a bunch of pansies. My only experience with martial arts is in karate when I was a wee lad. Now all the kids there seemed to be stains whos parents signed them so they wouldn't get bullied. Itw as actually a sweet dojo when I joined, a TON of crosstraining. Some jujitsu sensei (not bjj) taught there, also every now and then we had this awesome capoiera guy teach us.. it was a blast. ANyways it eventually started to turn into a McDojo. Now I was sitll jsuta kid, but I could sense the weakness. They started running a day care program, and then my cue to ditch the school came when I was sparring with a fat kid, and he lunged at me, but being fat I saw it coming a mile away and jsut stuck my foot out and he lunged into it with his stomach and dropped crying. I got disqualified for excessive force.

When it comes to traditional martial arts, I think there are jsut too many McDojos to be able to make an objective statement.

pasychosheep
Apr 08, 2009, 04:01 PM
Yeah, well McDojos are definitely on the same level as "MMA" dojos in my mind. That's why I was comparing them to the tae kwan do mcdojo movement.

I think both ijs and myself are talking about the "real" traditional dojos, that kick your ass every day of the week and don't water down the art.

ijs
Apr 08, 2009, 11:19 PM
I have no doubt that you are right, olinek, that some of the more traditional martial arts schools do attract pansies and it is difficult to have an objective statement. But my MT school was more of what pasychosheep was talking about, the traditional kick your ass kind of school.

I have no doubt that it is hard for martial arts schools to exist off a financial basis. You pretty much need pansies to pay for the school and you end up getting a pretty wimpy and young clientele. Lots of people have cash but not enough motivation or drive.

Olinek, your point brings up another idea that I forgot to talk about. You notice how MMA has become a status symbol with all those UFC T-Shirts and Tap-out regalia kicking around. The other day I ran into someone wearing a sweater that had a Muay Thai academies name on it, I asked him if he trained to which he said no. Disappointing. Perhaps UFC to us is what Smoking was in the 50's or Rock in the 1970's. It's so badass... (sarcasm) and now that smoking is regarded as stupid and rock is regarded as normal UFC/MMA culture is the last place where people can still be badass.

Raja
Apr 08, 2009, 11:45 PM
Mcdojos aren't all bad, they really do help average folks get in shape. Just train at a few different places before making up your mind on just one.

ijs
Apr 09, 2009, 12:19 AM
hah, will finally be breaking 10 posts on this one.

Raja, I agree with you. I would be happy if more people did exercise be it in a mcdojo or otherwise. Actually, Mcdojo's seem to have better motivators for exercise than personal motivation. Not only are you exercising but you also get to learn, and it is usually more fun. Just so long as they understand that they are getting exercise and are not learning to become fighters.

steveobur1000
Apr 09, 2009, 07:10 AM
Here's my tuppence worth.

I'm not to sure what you guys mean by a "McDojo". Do you mean a club where you train more then one style? This is a term i haven't heard in my country.

Anyway i started my training in the late 80's in a club that taught multipule styles.

My instructor at the time was one of my countries leading Jeet Kune Do teachers and we studied Boxing, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Jun Fan Gung Fu and Kali. And i would agree that younger guys would be attracted more to the combative styles. However they very rarely stayed the course as violent, gobby boys don't tend to have the mental toughness to train hard week in and week out. Also bully types don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot and they get their arses kicked.

I saw even more of this type later when i trained MMA. They would come to one class get beat down and then never come back. These guys are the real pansies in my book.

Also i would have to say that i have met alot of people who do traditional styles who still believe all that mystic chi crouching tiger stuff. In my time training i can't say i have seen anything that makes me believe this stuff is real.

Boxhead
Apr 10, 2009, 02:46 AM
I definately agree that MMA schools/clubs attract the "I'm going to kick your arse" type guys. I see to many macho cocky attitudes at MMA clubs. It's like being around a bunch of powerlifters at a powerlifting gym. I think its because disipline, respect, a code of ethics, bowing, "Yes Sir/Maam," learning about culture, history, spirituality isn't taught at MMA schools the way it is at traditional MA clubs.

I have not seen the the macho attitudes at Krav Maga schools because they are primarily teaching self-defense not fighting and because more women training at KM schools than at MMA schools.

Its comes down to testosterone.

KVD990
Apr 11, 2009, 01:07 PM
My Dojo is very traditional as its still teaching the stuff like it was taught in Okinawa. And we do the Hard Body Conditioning as well

cheesedog
Apr 11, 2009, 07:05 PM
My Dojo is very traditional as its still teaching the stuff like it was taught in Okinawa. And we do the Hard Body Conditioning as well

Mine too, we also work many drills, concepts, and sparring from MMA. Traditional and Modern martial arts can co-exist peacefully together.

Benihana
Apr 24, 2009, 10:33 AM
Mine too, we also work many drills, concepts, and sparring from MMA. Traditional and Modern martial arts can co-exist peacefully together.

I agree with Cheese Dog that Traditional and Modern Martial Arts have a place.....I'd like to add some additional observations/thoughts on the subject.

1. Traditional Okinawan arts (my background is Goju) have a heavy emphasis on conditioning the body from BW exercises to tools such as chi-chis (spelling?) and the extreme hitting rocks to harden hands. They saw this is development of the body as a weapon and dicipline. In the day it was typical that a student would be taught one kata (usually sanchin) for the first year or two of training and they weren't allowed to progress until it was perfect........my point is its not about multicoloured belts or beating the crap out of another person but self defence and self development.

2. Don't get me wrong the MMA guys are generally skilled athletes. MMA as it manifests itself on the TV in the USA (and to a lesser extent in my home Australia) has couple of things that upsets me. Firstly the lack of respect that some fighters give their opponent in the ring at the start of the fight. Secondly, I hate it when the fight gets onto the ground, one fighter has the upper hand and keeps punching the other in the head - this to me is senseless as its is a SPORT you shouldn't be wanting to kill the guy. At the end of the day one punch CAN KILL. Other fighting sports such as boxing and Muay Thai the ref steps in and ends it at this stage but not in UFC.

3. I have been fortunate enough to spend a month training in Muay Thai in Thailand in a gym run by Thai's. Muay Thai is a SPORT and this is clear in the differences in the techniques between this and Goju. From this I also have seen how hard the Thai's train and how they fight - they are the happiest people ever and they are tough, they definitely don't go in the ring with a lack of respect or wanting to kill the opponent. Its not looking for the big knockout but also being able to take as much punishment as he gives out and to overcome this.

4. While I've been here in the States I wanted to spend some time training in karate so I went along to a local Dojo - some 'new' age form of karate with a linnage that comes from the USA????? It was the only thing in the area:cry: I only lasted a couple of weeks - they did some conditioning but it was how many quick little fairy pushup you could do (a pushup with no form for me doesn't count!). There techniques were generally sloppy and the stances they used in training were very short - things that wouldn't have been allowed in a traditional Dojo. They sparred alot from their basic beginners onward. Sparring, not technique was where there emphasis was.......don't get me wrong sparring is good and teaches you alot but sparring without a good grounding in techniques and their application created only sloppy techniques and a poor fighter.

Anyway I've had my rant and I'm happy now!:cool:

marticus
Apr 24, 2009, 01:22 PM
+1 for the "Traditional and Modern martial arts can co-exist peacefully together" school of thought.
To me MMA Doesn't envoke only the UFC it just means literally Mixed martial arts. as in you take the most usefull element from a variety of disceplines in order to cover all eventualities.
My Dojo is a MMA school however my sensei is a karate traditionalist but is open minded enough to see the advantages of using what is needed from other martial arts.
Sure we get visits and seminars from the likes of chuck liddel and royce gracie and of course there are a few students with attitudes who think they're the next Tito Ortiz :rolleyes:.
But if you ask me do i train MMa i will say yes. does that mean i am learning a 'sport' or i have a bad attitude or that i aspire to be the next ufc champion then the answer is no I learn self defense and i have no desire to fight for sport. just my opinion;)

Benihana
Apr 27, 2009, 01:07 PM
To me MMA Doesn't envoke only the UFC it just means literally Mixed martial arts. as in you take the most usefull element from a variety of discipline in order to cover all eventualities.


>>>>To Marticus, my apologies, you are absolutely right, through out my earlier post I used MMA instead of UFC in my previous post. I am also very keen on cross training in different arts as a way to be a more rounded martial artist.

Also when I reffered to certain martial arts as a 'sport' it wasn't intended as a put down, merely a statement to why some tactics and techniques differ.

marticus
Apr 27, 2009, 01:22 PM
No apoligy needed i understood what you where saying.
I was just putting forward my experience.. as i said i do also come across guys with attitudes who want to be the next 'UFC CHAMPION OF THE WOOOOORLD!!!' :D

csg148
Apr 27, 2009, 03:05 PM
My only experience is limited in TKD. In my area I have the choice between TKD or MMA. I chose TKD for two reasons 1. My father-in-law is an instructor at the school and 2. I have done research and concluded that I would rather concentrate on one art form at a time before I take on another. Now in my school we learn bits and pieces of other art forms, but we primarily stick to one. Once I feel I have gone as far as I can in TKD I would like to venture into other arts, but for now one art at a time.

That being said my brother-in-law started years ago in MMA and quit to later start TKD with me. He quit TKD because he had no patience for the art.

So if this made any sense, in conclusion I think that the assesment of MMA seems to attract more fighters and straight MAs seem to attract more for an art form would be a fare assesment.

draego
Jun 26, 2009, 10:31 AM
I agree but I think as the MMA evolves and matures more ethics and respect will be taught
I bet there are many MMA schools that do teach respect and there are many
traditional schools that don't teach it enough

h_t
Jul 26, 2009, 10:42 PM
Okay, here is my 2 cents, as someone who took shotokan karate for 4 years (brown belt), Boxing and later on (currently) Muay Thai.

The OP's observation is the opposite of what i concluded.

MMA/Muay Thai/Boxing does attract the more combative types of people, which is perfectly fine and well actually, as in my opinion the 'art' or martial arts is the ability to beat up someone else.

You judge the beauty of a painting on its looks, but should judge the beauty of fighting styles based on effectivness of fighting, not how it looks, now you are comparing apples to oranges, wrong start.

I agree that more combative sports tend to attract more knuckleheads, but they rarely last, because in a good club the trainers dont allow attitude, and the students that stay there share the same mentality, the supposed tough guys from the street (and our club had those) come in, barely make it through the exercises and drills, then spar with someone light, get jabbed in the face many times because they have no techniques, lose patience and try to prove they are badass by KO'ng the more experienced fighter, get beaten up themselves, show up 2 more times and then quit.

so a proper club has a sense of being comrades together, help and train together and to make each other stronger, its competetive and painfull but fun and everyone leaves the club with a smile and handshake.

traditional schools are also hit and miss, some of them are friendly, probably more laid back and for people who just want to exercise well without worrying too much on combat effectivness, i dont see this as a martial art but still okay with it.

on the other hand, the lack of sparring has made some people there go on a power rage, thinking their black belt makes them gods sibiling and walk around with an ego praising themselves or bullying others, in a combat sports gym anyone with such claims will be offered a friendly spar and someone will leave you either humiliated or beaten up, so egos dont run rampant.

also, some traditional clubs emphasize too much story telling and "you grass hopper" respect as a way to steer clear from the fact they may not teach you the best techniques or actual fighting. while in combat clubs the respect is the main undertone that is sort of like an unspoken rule, and topics discussed and taught are how to become better fighters.

I hate how MMA is becomming commodified and random punks with UFC/Affliction shirts walk around thinking they inherited the powers of Fedor or Anderson Silva, but its an unfortunate reality that we all have to deal with. nobody in my club wears those shirts and everyone bruises from training, what i am starting to see is that some MMA schools are becoming McDojo'd too, which a proper Kyokushin Karate school can spank them around in pure striking. meh, end rant.

bloodriotiori
Jul 28, 2009, 12:46 PM
Okay, here is my 2 cents, as someone who took shotokan karate for 4 years (brown belt), Boxing and later on (currently) Muay Thai.

The OP's observation is the opposite of what i concluded.

MMA/Muay Thai/Boxing does attract the more combative types of people, which is perfectly fine and well actually, as in my opinion the 'art' or martial arts is the ability to beat up someone else.

You judge the beauty of a painting on its looks, but should judge the beauty of fighting styles based on effectivness of fighting, not how it looks, now you are comparing apples to oranges, wrong start.

I agree that more combative sports tend to attract more knuckleheads, but they rarely last, because in a good club the trainers dont allow attitude, and the students that stay there share the same mentality, the supposed tough guys from the street (and our club had those) come in, barely make it through the exercises and drills, then spar with someone light, get jabbed in the face many times because they have no techniques, lose patience and try to prove they are badass by KO'ng the more experienced fighter, get beaten up themselves, show up 2 more times and then quit.

so a proper club has a sense of being comrades together, help and train together and to make each other stronger, its competetive and painfull but fun and everyone leaves the club with a smile and handshake.

traditional schools are also hit and miss, some of them are friendly, probably more laid back and for people who just want to exercise well without worrying too much on combat effectivness, i dont see this as a martial art but still okay with it.

on the other hand, the lack of sparring has made some people there go on a power rage, thinking their black belt makes them gods sibiling and walk around with an ego praising themselves or bullying others, in a combat sports gym anyone with such claims will be offered a friendly spar and someone will leave you either humiliated or beaten up, so egos dont run rampant.

also, some traditional clubs emphasize too much story telling and "you grass hopper" respect as a way to steer clear from the fact they may not teach you the best techniques or actual fighting. while in combat clubs the respect is the main undertone that is sort of like an unspoken rule, and topics discussed and taught are how to become better fighters.

I hate how MMA is becomming commodified and random punks with UFC/Affliction shirts walk around thinking they inherited the powers of Fedor or Anderson Silva, but its an unfortunate reality that we all have to deal with. nobody in my club wears those shirts and everyone bruises from training, what i am starting to see is that some MMA schools are becoming McDojo'd too, which a proper Kyokushin Karate school can spank them around in pure striking. meh, end rant.

exactly sir.

Martial arts as a whole, are in a sad state of affairs in this day and age, just like anything else that the wrong group of people get their hands on. It's been twisted and ripped apart to look like something that it isn't.

Alot of people who train MMA are infact fantastic athletes, there's no questioning that. However what they don't understand, is that MMA is not a style, it is a concept, just as Jeet Kune Do was/is. It is a concept used in a SPORT (UFC for example, is a sport, nothing more nothing less), that involves people beating each other up infront of other people.

As you said, there are too many people today walking around with TAP OUT shirts on, thinking they're badass because it shows off their 15 inch biceps, while they suffer from ILS (imaginary lat syndrome, it's a common "disease" in alot of gyms), and think that because they watched Chuck Lidel throw a haymaker against people who have no idea how to properly defend a punch, that they too have inherited his powers, and are now gods of standup and ground fighting.

Loyoto is a great example of someone who comprehends what a SPORT UFC is, while still trying to stick to his traditional roots. He's a shotokan fighter, like myself, who's adapted the style to something that's effective (by effective, i mean "legal"...what a bullshit term for fighting lol) inside of that cage, but it's undeniable that he has subtle bits of his traditional style in his movements, attacks, and stances.

That's why he destroys just about anyone they put infront of him (just about being the key term), because they are unprepared for his style of fighting. Those straight punches he throws are about the closest thing you can get to a "legal" (lol legal in teh octagonz) reverse punch as you're going to get without him getting arrested for unnessicary force against his opponents xD

My sensei always says "i feel UFC is a joke and here's why. There is no possible way that you're going to be able to take 10-20 punches to the face and kicks to the body if there's any sort of intent behind them like there should be. I don't care how well "conditioned for battle" you are, if someone punches you directly in the face, with or without gloves on, and they have mastered the mechanics of a proper punch, meant to do damage to an opponent, you are not going to be able to take several of them to the face/solar plexus and get back up and keep going." I'm inclined to agree with him there, simply because i've been hit enough times by other people, both trained and untrained, who knew how to do it, and those who didn't, to be able to tell the difference.

/rant :P

Fatman
Jul 28, 2009, 01:16 PM
I will refrain from offering my own opinions on the effectiveness/lack therefo of both MMA and traditional martial arts, but:

The main issue seems to be the McDojo mentality. This is easier to pull off in MMA because it is such a broad term. After all, if someone is offering to teach you judo or karate you can look the person up and see whether he/she has participated in the sport successfully, or trained people who have participated in the sport successfully. It is as simple as that. In "MMA", basically anyone can open a school and offer to teach his brand of the sport. Especially due to the fact that there are so many "federations" and competitions, most of which I regret to say provide little but the crudest entertainment to the less enlightened strata of society. This allows for a high rate of frauds and kooks, and sadly combat-type sports result in very high injury rates if you combine a bunch of beginners with inadequate training.

I have never understood why people partake in these McDojos anyway. I mean, if you wanted to learn how to play football or basketball you wouldn't hire some dude of the street, you would look for credentials. Yet every "MMA" douchebag who offers to teach his highly doubtful brand of ass-kickin' seems to earn a following.

A serious boxing gym has at least a few active professionals or ex-professionals training in it. MMA should be no different. As for the retards who come into combat-style sports to learn how to "kick ass", they usually drop out when they realize that they haven't become Chuck Norris after their third class. This is what I liked about judo - you spend the first couple of months basically just learning how to fall and practicing two or three throws ad nauseam, so the retards say "screw this" and drop out naturally.

So yeah, the McDojo mentality will continue to prevail. So make sure that you check who you're training with. A decent trainer will have left his mark with competitive athletes (where competition-type sports are involved) or professionals (say, in MMA). If he hasn't, well, then happy Chuck Norris-ing to you :)

h_t
Jul 29, 2009, 12:49 AM
exactly sir.

Martial arts as a whole, are in a sad state of affairs in this day and age, just like anything else that the wrong group of people get their hands on. It's been twisted and ripped apart to look like something that it isn't.

Alot of people who train MMA are infact fantastic athletes, there's no questioning that. However what they don't understand, is that MMA is not a style, it is a concept, just as Jeet Kune Do was/is. It is a concept used in a SPORT (UFC for example, is a sport, nothing more nothing less), that involves people beating each other up infront of other people.

As you said, there are too many people today walking around with TAP OUT shirts on, thinking they're badass because it shows off their 15 inch biceps, while they suffer from ILS (imaginary lat syndrome, it's a common "disease" in alot of gyms), and think that because they watched Chuck Lidel throw a haymaker against people who have no idea how to properly defend a punch, that they too have inherited his powers, and are now gods of standup and ground fighting.

Loyoto is a great example of someone who comprehends what a SPORT UFC is, while still trying to stick to his traditional roots. He's a shotokan fighter, like myself, who's adapted the style to something that's effective (by effective, i mean "legal"...what a bullshit term for fighting lol) inside of that cage, but it's undeniable that he has subtle bits of his traditional style in his movements, attacks, and stances.

That's why he destroys just about anyone they put infront of him (just about being the key term), because they are unprepared for his style of fighting. Those straight punches he throws are about the closest thing you can get to a "legal" (lol legal in teh octagonz) reverse punch as you're going to get without him getting arrested for unnessicary force against his opponents xD

My sensei always says "i feel UFC is a joke and here's why. There is no possible way that you're going to be able to take 10-20 punches to the face and kicks to the body if there's any sort of intent behind them like there should be. I don't care how well "conditioned for battle" you are, if someone punches you directly in the face, with or without gloves on, and they have mastered the mechanics of a proper punch, meant to do damage to an opponent, you are not going to be able to take several of them to the face/solar plexus and get back up and keep going." I'm inclined to agree with him there, simply because i've been hit enough times by other people, both trained and untrained, who knew how to do it, and those who didn't, to be able to tell the difference.

/rant :P

not exclusive to MMA though, every combative sport, be it boxing, MMA, muay thai or knock down rules kyokushin tourney is not a real fight, yes its a sport, but still in no way its a joke or anywhere close.
I think its a question of Intent, fights outside of arenas are usually done out of emotion, anger or fear (for your life), so your intent is to hurt the other person in any way you can.
pro-fights are a means of income, ammy is for experience and pride, the intent is winning and both participants are fully aware and plan their moves like playing chess. thats why nobody commits 100% to anything, both have the nagging voice in their head telling them to watch out for shoots so they dont get GnP, armbarred or RNC'd and lose, but if someone punted your kid in the face, its a do-or-die situation, screw caring about potential shoots or counter hits.

with that said, combat sport oriented competition clubs are probably one of the best schools you could find, sure the rules might be flawed or conservative for the sake of participants safety, but those schools are usually the best, because while in street fights you could use eye/groin/throat strikes if given the chance, you must still rely on the bread and butter of fighting, punches and kicks, eye/groin/throat attacks are all valid but can be only taught as theory, because i would be very hard pressed that someone would allow you to practice those moves on them with enough force and resistance to really re-wire your reflexes and nuerology, so you can automatically gor for these moves, since practice makes perfect, you wont have those 'effective, illegal, deadly' moves down to the point you are comfortable using them in a very stressful situation where your blood is pumping, adrenaline is screwing with you and someone is intent on putting you in the hospital.

Sure you can do compliant drills of these moves, but they wont stick, and if you teach punching and kicking in the same way through compliant drills or choreographed movesets, you get someone who can dance, is a technique jockey and nows jack about actual fighting. Techniques dont matter if you dont have the timing, speed, distance and power correct, mike tyson uses the same punches someone 1 week into boxing uses, he just practised them more through sparring and competing, and anyone who says "i could beat mike tyson up on the STREET" is blowing bubbles out of his ass, unless its fedor.

You learn fighting by fighting, and the closest legal thing we have to real fighting is sparring and sport combat tournaments, no matter what style you practise, if it doesnt involve sparring againts a fully resisting opponent intent on beating you, you are just a technique jockey, the McDojo schools (actually called bullshido) are always the ones that never compete, thus dont spar properly under the guise they are 'martial art, not martial sport, our techniques are for the street and too deadly to spar with', increased resistence pressure tests techniques taught, those that dont perform well and need opponent compliance are not practised after a while and this cleans up the move list to what is the most effective, and usually its the simplest things, simple is good.

by having increased sport combat competition between schools, some will do well and McDojos will get creamed extra thick, now they have 2 choices:
1) never compete again, claim to be deadly and continue being technique jockeys
2) try next year, start sparring to make sure they arent the laughing stock anymore, start pressure testing moves, clean up what they teach and how they teach = stop being a bull McDojo

MMA is in no way a joke, it is as real as street fights can go, while being legal, and protecting their fighters from serious injuries, yes there are consequences to those rules and its watered down a bit, but thats 1000x better than being deadly techniques jockey from a McDojo living in a fairy land where he eye pokes 10 MMA fighters in a street fight and wins all the time.


I will refrain from offering my own opinions on the effectiveness/lack therefo of both MMA and traditional martial arts, but:

The main issue seems to be the McDojo mentality. This is easier to pull off in MMA because it is such a broad term. After all, if someone is offering to teach you judo or karate you can look the person up and see whether he/she has participated in the sport successfully, or trained people who have participated in the sport successfully. It is as simple as that. In "MMA", basically anyone can open a school and offer to teach his brand of the sport. Especially due to the fact that there are so many "federations" and competitions, most of which I regret to say provide little but the crudest entertainment to the less enlightened strata of society. This allows for a high rate of frauds and kooks, and sadly combat-type sports result in very high injury rates if you combine a bunch of beginners with inadequate training.

I have never understood why people partake in these McDojos anyway. I mean, if you wanted to learn how to play football or basketball you wouldn't hire some dude of the street, you would look for credentials. Yet every "MMA" douchebag who offers to teach his highly doubtful brand of ass-kickin' seems to earn a following.

A serious boxing gym has at least a few active professionals or ex-professionals training in it. MMA should be no different. As for the retards who come into combat-style sports to learn how to "kick ass", they usually drop out when they realize that they haven't become Chuck Norris after their third class. This is what I liked about judo - you spend the first couple of months basically just learning how to fall and practicing two or three throws ad nauseam, so the retards say "screw this" and drop out naturally.

So yeah, the McDojo mentality will continue to prevail. So make sure that you check who you're training with. A decent trainer will have left his mark with competitive athletes (where competition-type sports are involved) or professionals (say, in MMA). If he hasn't, well, then happy Chuck Norris-ing to you :)

Not at all, sherdog fighter finder is your 1 stop for the most part.
[www][.][sherdog.][com/stats/fightfinder] (take out the []'s, i have less than 20 posts)

just type in the last name, click on whatever the persons first name is, and WALLA, sherdog keeps a data base of fighters regardless of organization, as well as fighter records and sometimes pictures.

if the douche had only 1 or 2 fights and says thats why they arent listed on sherdog, you shouldnt want to learn from someone that inexperienced in the first place.

if he claims to have 13-0-0 record and champion of the light heavy weight division of his organization, then something must be found on sherdog, other wise its easy to know they are just crapping on your head.

Also i would love for you to link me to a similar judo or karate website that has a data base of judokas or karatekas, i am not being sarcastic here, i actually mean it because i intend to train in judo somewhere down the road and such a database would really help me verify some coaches around my area.

but in everything else, yes, i agree with you, luckily MMA is combat sport / competition oriented in the first place, so bad clubs with bad trainers will get beaten out by the good clubs, and thanks to sherdog, you cant pull tricks on people because anyone could look you up, after that common sense applies.

The problem that does concern me in MMA McDojoism, is some people take it too literally as "mixed martial arts", a friend of mine said MMA in Vancouver, BC, Canada is so bad, there was a MMA club that actually taught Aikido and something else, and another club that was actually a traditional chinese MA club that taught striking and grappling styles, and then claim some rank in those MA they teach which is hard to verify, i would prefer people to literally take MMA as "MMA" and not "mixed martial arts" so that cages, rings and sherdog are the first thing that come to mind, not black belts and certificates from grand master someone. So that McDojoism in traditional MA doesnt creep into MMA.

WOW this was a long ass post :lol:

Fatman
Jul 29, 2009, 02:34 AM
Also i would love for you to link me to a similar judo or karate website that has a data base of judokas or karatekas, i am not being sarcastic here, i actually mean it because i intend to train in judo somewhere down the road and such a database would really help me verify some coaches around my area.

I wasn't thinking of a website, but judo and karate are established sports with federations, associations and that sort of stuff. So you could contact the official governing body of the sport in your area/state/country and find out about a particular trainer. Stuff like people he has trained, if he competed and how successfully, etc. Many of these will have websites and online databases too. This is much more reliable IMO. Sherdog is cool, but it's a fan-based site.

"MMA" applies to any combination of martial arts, so teaching Aikido and something else still falls within the definition. Most of these schools, from what I've seen, teach some form of jiu-jutsu (usually Brazilian, 'cause that's "cool") plus elements from other martial arts. I would like to see "MMA" as you mean it ("cage-fighting" and all that) get rid of the McDojo mentality (along with more traditional combat-style sports), but I don't think it will happen in my lifetime. Schools can even compete, it still won't make a difference. I do not follow "MMA" nor have the slightest inclination to, but there seems to be a lot of hot air blowing around, at least in the "competitive" part one gets to see on TV. As long as the trailer-park mentality prevails, the sport will suffer. And one must remember that it is a sport first and foremost, a combat-inspired one but a sport nevertheless.

BigBasti
Jul 29, 2009, 12:34 PM
I think one of the main problemes that developed throughout the last maybe 10 yrs is tah mma is is not understood to be mixed "martial arts" but some kind of secret weapon. If you ask people who is deadlier someone training karate or someone training mma, people will much more likely say that the man training mma is more dangerous. And that is what it is all about for them... dont get me wrong I think stickingto one particular style makes more sense. but most people who go into mma not for body conditioning or for learning a certain philosophy are just there to learn how to fight somebody effectively.
Wrong attitude for sure, but IMO thats how it is.

Raja
Jul 30, 2009, 12:30 AM
Train martial arts for the joy of it. It's good exercise and discipline. Don't go around expecting to be mr.badass. In this world of gangs and guns, no martial art is a surefire way to protect yourself.