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cheesedog
Feb 23, 2009, 01:51 AM
Here is a set of dynamic tension exercises taught to me some years ago. Sadly I can't remember the name of the instructor, but he mentioned he had gotten most of them from a Hung Gar sifu named Donald Hamby who is well respected in kung fu circles and has a number of videos out on You Tube, although none of them have the same exercises I learned.

These exercises are designed to build strength and endurance, also increase your internal energy and health. If you don't believe in "chi" or any "any of that crazy mumbo-jumbo those nutty Chinese do" that's fine. Just do the exercises as written and you will, over time, be stronger and healthier. Belief in Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) is not required, although as you get more advanced with these and similiar exercises you just might change your mind.

GENERAL GUIDLINES:

1. All breathing is in and out through your nose.
2. Place the flat of your tongue against the roof of your mouth. If you place it correctly it takes very little tension to keep it there. This connects the governor and conception vessel so chi can flow smoothly up the center of your back and down the front of your torso.
3. Since we are all adults here I'll just say this out straight; every time you exhale you tighten your anus, just like you would if you were trying to lift something heavy. And during the hard portions stay tight down there on inhales AND exhales. During the soft portions just tighten on the exhale.
4. During the hard, or tense portion of the exercises you conciously try to tighten every muscle in your body. Grip the floor with your toes, tighten your glutes, set your core like you were doing a max deadlift, your whole body as hard as possible. Conversely during the soft part of the exercises use just enough tension to hold yourself in the proper position, be as relaxed as possible.

WARMUP:

You don't need a lot of warmup for this, it's pretty much built in, but I like to do a bit of mobility for the shoulders and knees and a little dynamic flexibility, to make it easier to get into a solid low stance.

EXERCISE 1 -- KNIFEHANDS

The first exercise is the longest to explain.

Stand with feet shoulder width apart, hands open and at your sides.
INHALE, Make fists, hands curl up to shoulders, like you are doing a bicep curl.
EXHALE, Hands open into a vertical knifehand, push out straight from shoulders.
INHALE, Make fists, without moving upper arms curl your fists to your chest, open hands to palm strike position.
EXHALE, Bring shoulders back and press both palms directly out to the sides, exactly as if you were doing a back press cable exercise. Do the "back press" move three times, exhaling as you push out. On the hard part use tension when you pull in as well. At the end of this movement keep your arms extended.
INHALE, Clench fists and bring your arms in as if you were doing a chest fly.
EXHALE, Leaving your upper arms where they are, curl your arms into your chest. Then tricep curl them back out. As you do the tricep curl portion allow your arms to rotate from the shoulders so your palm faces up as your arms extend fully.
INHALE, Pull your fists into your sides as if you were doing a bent row movement to your navel area. Do the low row three times with three inhales.

Do this entire exercise 2 times soft and 2 times hard.

EXERCISE TWO -- HORSE STANCE PALM STRIKES

Drop into a horse stance with feet just a bit more than shoulder width apart. During the soft portion use a higher, less tense stance. During the hard part drop into the deepest horse stance you can, ideally upper legs parallel to the floor. From the horse stance, bring your palms up in front of your shoulders and press out in front of you as you exhale, bring back as you inhale. Repeat 8 times soft, then 8 times maximum tension. Use tension when you are pulling back also. On the last rep leave your arms extended straight out and go right into the next exercise.

EXERCISE THREE -- CIRCLE OUT

From arms extended, keeping your arms straight you twist from the waist, sweeping both arms as far to the right as your can, when you have twisted as far as you can bring your palms back to in front of your shoulders as you twist back to the front and then press both palms straight out to the front. Repeat on the left side, that equals one rep. Do this a total of 8 times soft and 8 times hard, remember on the hard part to tighten your core muscles as you twist and use tension pulling in as well as pushing out.

EXERCISE FOUR -- HOURGLASS STANCE TRICEP PRESS

Stand with feet shoulder width apart, turn feet inward (as if you were walking "pigeon toed"), turn legs inward and bend knees slightly, feel tension in your inner thighs. Allow your back to round slightly as if you were slightly hunchbacked. Place your fists in front of your groin about an inch from your body and about 3 inches from each other. As you inhale bring your fists upward as if you were doing an L-lateral raise until your arms are parallel with the floor. Bring your fists in to about eye level and in front of your face with about 2 inches between your fists. As you exhale press your fists downward as if you were doing a standing tricep pushdown while crunching in with your abs slightly. do this 8 times soft and 12 times hard. Use tension when you do the "L lateral raise" part when your doing the hard set.

EXERCISE FIVE -- DIVIDING FIST, METAL AND EARTH

Stand in a wide horse stance, feet a least a foot wider than shoulder width. Make fists and curl arms halfway and cross in front of your chest, right on top of left for males, left on top for females. Inhale and bring your crossed arms overhead, exhale and bring them down as if you were doing a cable pulldown for your lats. Inhale and cross arms again the same way as before then bend from the waist until your upper body is parallel with the floor and bring both arms straight out to your sides as if you were doing a bent over fly for your rear delts. This is one rep, do 8 reps soft and 8 reps hard.

EXERCISE SIX -- WOOD AND WATER HANDS

Stand in a forward stance, but twist upper body so that your front stance is pointing to the right but your upper body is pointing more forward. Cross arms in front of chest and press a palm hand to the front while extending a fist to your rear. Inhale and circle your palm hand from the elbow until it is near your chest then form a fist and sweep that hand overhead and in front of you at a 45 degree angle. Exhale and turn into a forward stance facing the opposite way as you bring your extended fist from overhead (like you were doing a one handed cable straight arm pulldown) and bring the other fist up (as if you were doing a front raise for your delts). Do both of those movements at the same time, your fists will pass each other infront of your face. Cross arms in front of your chest and repeat for the other side. This is one rep, do 8 soft and 8 hard. During this exercise your feet stay in the same position, all the turning from front stance to front stance is from the waist and hips.

EXERCISE SEVEN -- ARROW PUNCHES

From front stance with waist twist exactly like exercise six, but instead your front hand is in a middle outward block and your back hand is chambered at your hip. Inhale and middle out block with the front hand, turn into opposite front stance (from the waist, feet don't move) ans exhale and punch straight out in front of you with the back hand while the hand that was doing the block chambers at your hip. The punch for this is a vertical fist punch. Repeat on the opposite side, thats one rep. Repeat 8 times soft and 8 times hard.

EXERCISE EIGHT -- HORSE STANCE FIRE PUNCHES

Drop into low horse stance, fists chambered at hips. Extend right hand and on the exhale do 3 punches, inhale, do 3 punches on exhale. Each exhale is one rep. Do a total of 18 reps soft and 18 reps hard. Use a horizontal fist for this exercise.

EXERCISE NINE -- WRIST EXERCISE

From low horse stance, extend arms straight out in front of you, open hands into a tiger claw position. Rotate hands from the wrists while keeping tight tiger claws, do 8 times clockwise and 8 times counterclockwise. I was taught to just do these with max tension, but feel free to do these soft a few times first.

EXERCISE TEN -- HOURGLASS STANCE DOUBLE FIST

Go into hourglass stance just like in exercise four, curl your arms halfway and with your left hand palm down and right hand palm up cross your fists in front of your stomach. For women do your wrists the opposite. Slightly flex your wrists so that they "lock together" and from there you are doing the circle out movement form exercise three. This looks kind of funny I always think of that dumb old dance "the cabbage patch" whenever I do this exercise. Do this exercise 8 times soft and 8 times hard.

RETURN CHI TO DAN TIEN

Keeping your tongue against the roof of your mouth (it's been there the whole time, right?), stand with feet shoulder width apart. Open hands and let fall relaxed at your sides. As you breath in bring your arms to the sides and sweep overhead. Finish your inhale as your hands reach straight overhead, lay one palm in the other (right inside for men, left inside for women) and breath out as you bring your arms in front of you and lightly touch your openly cupped hands to your dan tien, which is a couple of inches below your navel. Do this slowly and as relaxed as possible atleast 8 times, more if you like. Imagine that energy flows up the outside of your spine and over the top of your head as you inhale and sweep your hands overhead. Imagine that energy flows down the middle of the front of your body to your dantien as you exhale and your cupped hands come down.


Whew, that was a lot of typing. I searched Youtube for hours trying to find examples of these but nothing was close enough. Hopefully my wordy explainations are good enough, but feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Cheesedog

Fatman
Feb 23, 2009, 02:24 AM
Nice! Will make a cool change from my usual DVR stuff. Thanks for all the trouble.

I downloaded "Stone Warrior", but found the guy to be a tad too verbose. Didn't feel like listening to him talk about "not straining" for over an hour. This is so much better.

n8tive
Feb 23, 2009, 09:16 AM
Good Stuff Cheese, Thanks for the info.

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 10:21 AM
Greetings and Fellcitations,

If you like Dynamic Tension exercises you might want to check out the Sanchin series of Kata. They are based on Chinese techniques. The breathing is loud and forceful but the techniques are good. You can just search for Sanchin kata on youtube. The best are from Goju Ryu and Kyokushinkai. Here is an example

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KprSXB25BDA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KprSXB25BDA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

Almond
Feb 23, 2009, 01:18 PM
Greetings and Fellcitations,

If you like Dynamic Tension exercises you might want to check out the Sanchin series of Kata. They are based on Chinese techniques. The breathing is loud and forceful but the techniques are good. You can just search for Sanchin kata on youtube. The best are from Goju Ryu and Kyokushinkai. Here is an example

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/KprSXB25BDA&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/KprSXB25BDA&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

This is stuff of the past. I know it's authentic, but so is human sacrifice. I am glad that out of the picture. I may be ignorant, but I see no point in that type of training.

Fatman
Feb 23, 2009, 01:27 PM
This is stuff of the past. I know it's authentic, but so is human sacrifice. I am glad that out of the picture. I may be ignorant, but I see no point in that type of training.

Apparently Sanchin practitioners disagree with you. They do it alongside other forms of strength training.

olinek
Feb 23, 2009, 01:57 PM
Cheesedog great post man.

I have some questions.

1) For the soft parts, you say to only tighten for the exhale. But is it just tightening the anus or are we to tighten the entire body for the exhalation (like in hard).

2) When keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth.. should it be up against the teeth or further back?

3) Can you describe the breathing a bit more? I mean duration of inhalation, exhalation? Do you inhale maximally or not quite and when exhaling do you exhale completely or do you keep some air in the bottom of your lungs? Is it similar to ujjayi breathing which happens to be pretty much the same as breathing done in most qi gong (i think)?

4) Do you ever improvise your own dynamic tension routines?

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 02:00 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,


This is stuff of the past. I know it's authentic, but so is human sacrifice. I am glad that out of the picture. I may be ignorant, but I see no point in that type of training.

First, let me say that finding a connection between traditional conditioning and human sacrifice has to be one of the most incredible pieces of mental gymnastics I have seen in years.

Second, you don't see a point but I doubt you have ever done it either. Doing Sanchin is one of the most demanding exercises in Karate. Try spending ten minutes moving while maintaining dynamic tension in every muscle and then tell me there is no point at all.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 02:06 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,



2) When keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth.. should it be up against the teeth or further back?


The tongue goes into the top of the mouth slightly behind the teeth and just in front of the soft portion of the palate. Its the connection point between two different accupuncture meridians. It allows for the flow of energy between those two meridians and facilitates Qigong.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

Fatman
Feb 23, 2009, 02:16 PM
4) Do you ever improvise your own dynamic tension routines?

That's the best part about this sort of exercise... basically you can do anything you imagine. The resistance comes from all directions. Do the kung fu stuff, or lift imaginary weights, or workout on imaginary machines.

olinek
Feb 23, 2009, 02:58 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,
The tongue goes into the top of the mouth slightly behind the teeth and just in front of the soft portion of the palate. Its the connection point between two different accupuncture meridians. It allows for the flow of energy between those two meridians and facilitates Qigong.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

OK to be honest you just confused me even more. I am assuming that groove on the roof of the mouth near the back is the soft palate.


That's the best part about this sort of exercise... basically you can do anything you imagine. The resistance comes from all directions. Do the kung fu stuff, or lift imaginary weights, or workout on imaginary machines.

Well yea. I improvise everything cause I am an asshole and I do it my way. But for example in yoga,some of the sequences in some yogas are said to be specifically set up to "maximize the prana of the yama, the tai of the chi, the qi of the gong".:mrgreen: SOrry no disrespect to anyone. I am assuming in some martial arts it is the same... you gotta align your yang with your ying and your wing with your wang (sorry I couldn't help it).

It is not that I am asking for permission to break the rules ( I am a rebel.. bad like James Dean.. I apologize for bad joke #3). I am just curious what cheesedogs thoughts are on this (or anyone else). My understanding of chi or ki or prana is that it is pretty much just intra abdominal pressure. Now this is my best guess, not that much of a scientific one.. I haven't done too much research. ANd I don't wanna turn this into some debate on chi and dungeons and dragons.. OMG I rambling time to train.

Almond
Feb 23, 2009, 03:04 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,



First, let me say that finding a connection between traditional conditioning and human sacrifice has to be one of the most incredible pieces of mental gymnastics I have seen in years.

Second, you don't see a point but I doubt you have ever done it either. Doing Sanchin is one of the most demanding exercises in Karate. Try spending ten minutes moving while maintaining dynamic tension in every muscle and then tell me there is no point at all.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

David, I am not saying it's not hard. It's very hard.
Walking with 60 lb back pack and two contines full of water is hard too.
But I don't see how it make some one a better fighter, striker or blocker.

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 03:32 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,


OK to be honest you just confused me even more. I am assuming that groove on the roof of the mouth near the back is the soft palate.

Perhaps this picture will help.

http://www.multi-orgasmic.com/images/App-20-Completing.gif

The best thing I can tell you is to look up Microcosmic Orbit and read about it.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

cheesedog
Feb 23, 2009, 06:09 PM
First off, I'd like to thank C. David Neely for all the answers he has provided to this thread. Thanks Mr. Neely!

To answer Olineks questions:

1. On the soft chi gung portion of the exercises, tighten only your anus and only on the exhale. Keep the rest of your body as relaxed as possible.
2. I think Mr. Neely answered where your tongue goes pretty well. Just remember that if it's placed correctly it almost stays there by itself, you should feel very little muscle involvment to keep it there. If you feel strain in your tongue it's in the wrong spot!
3. As for your breathing, on the soft portions you use a relaxed breath. Don't strain to shorten or lengthen it. For most people a 1.5 to 2 second inhale and 1.5 to 2 second exhale is about right, as you get more advanced you will probably find yourself automatically lengthening your breathing without strain. On the hard portions the in and out length is about the same as the soft part, but tighten your core and your throat and push the breath out maximally or close. If you sound like Darth Vader you're doing it right! Don't completely empty your lungs, leave a bit in reserve. The exception to that is if you are doing the Kata Sanchin, for that you maximally empty your lungs. The version of Sanchin I do only takes a minute to finish where the Hung Gar exercises takes 15-20 minutes, if you breathed like that you wouldn't be able to finish.
4. Sure you CAN devise your own routines, but I wouldn't until I had studied TCM and understood what movements send energy to what organ systems. If you choose to "do your own thing" make sure to work all planes of movement equally and if you experience symptoms like nervousness, rapid heartbeat, or sick to your stomach stop and PM me.

olinek
Feb 23, 2009, 06:22 PM
Ahhh thanks for the help. I am glad I asked cuase this clarified a few things for me.

I am gonna mess around sometime soon.

One more question.

Is there a time of day that is better to do this? I mean for some reason I often get the jitters to train just as I am going to bed..even if I had already trained that day. I often do some calisthenics and stretches but then have hard time falling asleep. I guess I would have to mess around anyways but I feel it might be worth asking.

Thanks again/

olinek
Feb 23, 2009, 06:27 PM
The best thing I can tell you is to look up Microcosmic Orbit and read about it.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

OK thanks for the suggested reading. I must admit though I am always a bit weary when I delve into such things. I mean don't get me wrong, there is certainly a wealth of information and legit concepts developed from these thoughts, if by no other method than centuries of trial and error, experimentation and observation. But on the other hand I can't help but be skeptical of everything when I hear of things like internal ejaculation. (because 1 drop of semen is worth more to the body than 4 drops of blood). Now I don't really know why I brought that up but.. well I will just look into what you suggested.

thanks.

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 07:19 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,


OK thanks for the suggested reading. I must admit though I am always a bit weary when I delve into such things. I mean don't get me wrong, there is certainly a wealth of information and legit concepts developed from these thoughts, if by no other method than centuries of trial and error, experimentation and observation. But on the other hand I can't help but be skeptical of everything when I hear of things like internal ejaculation. (because 1 drop of semen is worth more to the body than 4 drops of blood). Now I don't really know why I brought that up but.. well I will just look into what you suggested.

thanks.

When it comes to the principles of Taoism you have to apply a few grains (pounds) of salt. You have to remember that many things have been added to the practices that probably weren't there to begin with. The attitude towards preservation of semen is easy to understand if you consider the misogynism that is prevalent in Chinese culture. There are as many schools of Taoism as there are drops of water. There are some who practice the deeply preservational techniques and there are others who consider the practices outmoded. It just depends on which teacher you follow. I don't feel personally, and based upon my own research, that a philosophy so based on nature and living in accord with nature had such counter-natural ideas.

I like the works of Deng Meng Dao. His approach seems to be a little more modern than some teachers.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

cheesedog
Feb 23, 2009, 07:46 PM
Ahhh thanks for the help. I am glad I asked cuase this clarified a few things for me.

I am gonna mess around sometime soon.

One more question.

Is there a time of day that is better to do this? I mean for some reason I often get the jitters to train just as I am going to bed..even if I had already trained that day. I often do some calisthenics and stretches but then have hard time falling asleep. I guess I would have to mess around anyways but I feel it might be worth asking.

Thanks again/

Your welcome! The best time to do chi gung is first thing in the morning, dawn if possible. I say "if possible" but let's face it, very few are getting up at dawn to do chi gung. Unless you go to Asia, lots get up early to practice there. Anyway, any time of day or night is fine, but if you get the jitters from training late at night don't do it. The only real guidelines are to wait a couple of hours after eating, and if you do chi gung during the day you want to face east and at night you want to face north. It's not absolutely necessary it just helps your energy to flow better.

olinek
Feb 23, 2009, 07:53 PM
Thanks CDavidNeely and cheesedog. I will experiment later today.

CDavidNeely
Feb 23, 2009, 08:37 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,


Your welcome! The best time to do chi gung is first thing in the morning, dawn if possible. I say "if possible" but let's face it, very few are getting up at dawn to do chi gung. Unless you go to Asia, lots get up early to practice there. Anyway, any time of day or night is fine, but if you get the jitters from training late at night don't do it. The only real guidelines are to wait a couple of hours after eating, and if you do chi gung during the day you want to face east and at night you want to face north. It's not absolutely necessary it just helps your energy to flow better.

I'm one of those really annoying morning people. I usually get up about 5am, have a cup of Chai then do yoga and Tai Chi. At 6am I start getting the kids up and ready for school. Of course, I am a firm believer in taking an afternoon/evening nap of about 30 minutes (I also have a built in alarm clock that seems to be preset for 30 minute naps and wakes me up right before the alarm goes off).
I usually do a combination of yoga and meditation before bed to relax.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

cheesedog
Feb 23, 2009, 11:52 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,



I'm one of those really annoying morning people. I usually get up about 5am, have a cup of Chai then do yoga and Tai Chi. At 6am I start getting the kids up and ready for school. Of course, I am a firm believer in taking an afternoon/evening nap of about 30 minutes (I also have a built in alarm clock that seems to be preset for 30 minute naps and wakes me up right before the alarm goes off).
I usually do a combination of yoga and meditation before bed to relax.

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

Yeah, I USED to be one of those people too. Since I got married I can't seem to get motivated to get up really early and workout like I used to.

bodylifter
Mar 21, 2009, 08:41 PM
Cheesedog, great post. I'm going to give this a shot tomorrow. I;ll let you know how it goes.

onelasttime
Apr 05, 2009, 04:04 PM
Sanchin is good stuff it is still very relavent to todays fighter! It is an excellent dynamic workout. So is Stone Warrior or Iron Wire Vest training. I do not think that it is something that is all unto itself. WHat I mean is that one would still benifit from some dynamic trainign be it with body weight or free weights. Since todays athletes use a eclectic mix of training methods anyone that releyed on Sanchin alone for their strength development and muscle mass development would be limiting themself drasticly! If one did Sanchin daily you could prop. get away with two total body weight training days a week and still make great progress!

In fact I wish I had made use of Isometrics and VRT in High School when I was wrestleing! WHY???? Because when one is wrestling against a human being it is very much like VRT/DVR and has a strong isometric componet. A wrestler's heart is beating like a jack hammer the entire time he is on the mat not because of the dynamic motion rather because theya re holding a lot of tension. Ever see a fat Wrestler??? Not too likely until you get to the Unlimited weight class. Ever notice how rock hard most wrestler's look! It is not the aeroobic that is doing that to them and it is not the dieting. In fact 45 minutes of hard running is about equal to 2 minutes of hard wrestling.

In fact when someone is trying to make your limb's bend in a direction they where not intended to bend nothing but anerobic endurance and the ability to demonstrate large amounts of sustained tension are going to save you or your joint! A wrestler or MMA practioner does not need to be the strongest man ont he matt per-say! He or she needs to be able to sustain close to their max strength for a longer period of time then their opponet. Cardio training needs to be mixed with a strrength elemeant because cardio alone while it conditions the heart and lungs does nothing to help ones body handle the chemicals made from sustained anerobic action. THis is why you have to have a circuit of anerobic mixed in with your aerobic componet so your body learns to handle the conflicting energy systems and their need to clear the toxins out.

The earlist attempt at this is seen in Western Boxing where they did "Road Work" which was running or jogging with calastetics mixed in every so many meter's! So you might runn 400 meters then drop and do 50 push-up's then runn another 400 meters and drop and do 50 burpee's then run 400 meter's and do 20 pull-up's etc......You would repeat this for 2-5 miles at a time each day in addition tot he heavy bag work and any calastetics or weights being used and any sparing etc......

Today you will often see a MMA type doing weights then hoping on a treadmill or exercise bike then hoping on the matt and rolling around for 2-6 minutes then running outside to a station with a sledge hammer and tire or a wheel barrow loaded with something to run up a hill with etc.......Same idea as the early western boxer's useing road work it is a way to combine two different energy systems into one complex workout.

Today Tabata rules suprime but you see all kinds of variatiosn of his work. So far most I have seen are not even close to as good for results but everyone has their own take on it even if they have no science to back up their approach.

I would dare say that probably 99% of H.S. and College athletes would benifitt greatly by makeing anerobic endurance their main concern dureing their off season!Most athletes have dismal recover ability when you start talking about anerobic recovery because almost no one trains for it. They do conventional weight lifting which is full of long rest periods and then they do seperate cardio workout's! It is proven time and time again even by the Canadain Police Accedy that anerobic endurance training where cardio and anoerbics are mixed produces far greater results then breaking up the workouts into their seperate componet's. A Circuit is as complex or simple as you make it and can be easily scaled up and down to match your desires inthat workout!

onelasttime
Apr 05, 2009, 04:05 PM
Oh and incase you did not get it! You can do cardio with Isometrics inter-laced with the cardio! It is insane and will push you to the limit real fast!

cheesedog
Apr 10, 2009, 01:19 AM
Hello all, since I wrote up this post a couple of months ago I have been doing these dynamic tension exercises 3-4 times a week. So far the results have been as follows.

1. I feel good. Not exactly scientific I know, but I just feel healthier.

2. I've gained some muscle in my arms, shoulders, and upper back. I like that.

3. I've noticed a good increase in strength lately, which I attribute to getting better at applying tension. A few days ago I was practicing some side planks and I was holding them more than twice as long as before, with much less sense of strain.

4. Also a nice increase in leg strength and a BIG increase in leg endurance. Holding those low stances is paying off.

5. I found that doing these exercises constitutes a good mobility workout, especially for the shoulders, hips, and waist. I've noticed a bit of an increase in shoulder flexibility, which is great since my shoulders are very tight.

6. My springtime allergies are MUCH less troublesome this year than usual, in fact my allergies haven't been this mild since I first started getting them over 20 years ago. I had always read that chi gung, especially kidney-related was very good for allergies. Most of the movements send energy to the kidneys.

7. No joint strain, great since I'm still rehabbing my elbow.

8. If I'm in a hurry or sore from a more conventional workout I can still get a in hard workout in only 20-25 minutes.

Well, that's all I can think of right now.

onelasttime
Jul 29, 2009, 04:46 PM
Seeing no point or value to something is drasticly different from the reality of the matter. Dynamic tension type training can make a huge difference in both your ability to take damage and dishit out. It defiantely makes you stronger all over in a way that weight lifting can not do. Each tool be it weight lifting,dynamic tension,isometrics,Isopowerflex,DVR,DSR and VRT all have their place and all produce drasticly different training effect. I like have a big tool box with lots of tools to chose from!

Bruce Lee was a huge fan of Isometrics so do you think Bruce had it all wrong and was useing out dated training routines and tools? Steve Justa has it all wrong too I gues? John Perterson wasting his time? Mr. Sweeny just as nutty as squirel poo? The Max Planc Institute in Dortman Germany missed the bus as well and got it all backwards with regurds to it's 5000 person multi decades long work on Isometrics too I suppose etc...........

I mean we all know those Shalin monks are just a bunch of weak girly men because of their use of Dynamic tension and isometrics!

gilstrap
Jul 30, 2009, 01:42 PM
OK thanks for the suggested reading. I must admit though I am always a bit weary when I delve into such things. I mean don't get me wrong, there is certainly a wealth of information and legit concepts developed from these thoughts, if by no other method than centuries of trial and error, experimentation and observation. But on the other hand I can't help but be skeptical of everything when I hear of things like internal ejaculation. (because 1 drop of semen is worth more to the body than 4 drops of blood). Now I don't really know why I brought that up but.. well I will just look into what you suggested.

thanks.

hahahahahahhahahhahahahahaahha you fucking weirdo

onelasttime
Jul 30, 2009, 02:35 PM
Yes but drops of semen are not related to muscular strength that is more about Chi cultavation and such. I am not saying I buy it all but the movements and dynamic tension work well even if you do not buy into the chi side of things and life force etc...... Bear in mind that the internal arts came into beingmostly from Shaminism and Eastern Medical Healing and Health idea's and they worked their way into the martials arts world in reverse. The movements and physical training came first and the treatment of Chi or your life force and the idea of eternal souls where at first treated seperately......As more andmore Martial Art's master's began to study the Medicine of their age they worked in these beliefs same thing with religion and philosophy they all came after the physical.It is no different then when JP trys to include both Eastern Religious beliefs and Christian beliefs into his system you do not have to buy into his beliefs in order for the physical training to work!

I am not saying that Esoteric stuff is garbage only that you do not have to buy all of it to benifit from the exercise's they where at first seperate and then combined so taking them apart is no big deal. Tai-Chi is deadly when practiced as it was origanaly it was the advant of the internal side and modern push-hands training that has brought it down to a level of posture exercise's like Yoga instead of being taught as a deadly and power martial arts system. It is near imposssable to find a person in the USA that teach's the Art from a combat perspective which is sad but true. I am sure if you live on either coast you can find it but in fly over country it is just an internal art much like Yoga !

For my European brothers "Fly over country" is what the Ultra Liberal Democratic Part use's to refer to all those states in America not on either coast. It is meant as a put down when they say it as they feel we do not count and are holding back the progress of their socialist schemes!

gilstrap
Jul 31, 2009, 05:52 AM
i see the thread i see the words i see the letters but just cant make any sense of it

bloodriotiori
Jul 31, 2009, 01:01 PM
i see the thread i see the words i see the letters but just cant make any sense of it

lol you seem to have a really difficult time grasping concepts that are even remotely beyond your comfort zone don't you? :P

Anyways, in the past i've messed around with variations of this type of training, i forgot how horribly difficult it can be, i tried it again last night, and within 10 minutes i was drenched in sweat and exhausted heh. I'm gonna start incorporating this once again into my training, hopefully it'll help with these shitty elbows of mine too.

onelasttime
Jul 31, 2009, 07:14 PM
Tension is strength strength is tension. It does not ultimately matter where the tension comes from so long as you can progressively continue to build greater and greater tension. It is much simpler to use weights since these are mindless and do their job just by being. Now even in body building which is the most baustardized use of progressive resitance ever even understand and promotes the mind muscle connection. Just lifting the weights mindlessly can only take you so far it is only when you learn to get into themuscle mentaly and drive it harder then ever well past the pain threshold that others would stop at that world class results are achieved. Dynamic tension instead of being cenetered on the doing the act of moving the limbs it is focused on trying to use the mind to cultivate as much tension under your direct control as possable. It requires the practicianer to learn right away say the first 30 days what often takes weight lifters 10 or more years to come to understand and learn and most powerlifters take at least 5 years unless they are well coached to come to that same end. Obviously I am talking about your stand out athletes that rise to the top quickly the average person never get's this unless he reads about it in a book or magazine then goes out and tries to master it. The difference between world class and average is how fast the person comes to this idea on their own or through coaching and is able to master it. Dynamic relaxation is just as important as dynamic tension it is the ying and yang of strength learn to do both and their is little that you cannot do physicaly once you set you mind to it.

I am not making this shit up it came long before I was born. Men like Mike Dayton, The Mity Atom and others have demonstrated this type of awarness in their demonstrations of power like breaking police hand cuff's, bending quaters between their fingers, biting through steel chains etc.......No amount of iron pumping alone can make these things happen for you it is only when one learns to shut down the bodies normal protective reflex's and has absolute control of ones muscle that this type of stuff can happen for you. Isometrics is almost a given but even dynamic tension exercise can do.

cheesedog
Jul 31, 2009, 09:38 PM
Anyways, in the past i've messed around with variations of this type of training, i forgot how horribly difficult it can be, i tried it again last night, and within 10 minutes i was drenched in sweat and exhausted heh. I'm gonna start incorporating this once again into my training, hopefully it'll help with these shitty elbows of mine too.

One of the good things about dynamic tension and isometrics is the fact that it's easy on your joints. I usually do these exercises 3-5 times a week although lately I've been slacking a little, I need to do them more as they really seem to help. I've noticed the day after doing them my elbow feels better. I hope they will help your problem too!

bloodriotiori
Jul 31, 2009, 10:57 PM
One of the good things about dynamic tension and isometrics is the fact that it's easy on your joints. I usually do these exercises 3-5 times a week although lately I've been slacking a little, I need to do them more as they really seem to help. I've noticed the day after doing them my elbow feels better. I hope they will help your problem too!

hopefully. i really need to study this to make sure i'm doing it exactly right, as a bit of the descriptions confuse me.

cheesedog
Aug 01, 2009, 02:11 AM
I plan to get a videocam and put up a vid for it someday. When I get the time...

Kanik
Aug 11, 2009, 07:26 PM
I plan to get a videocam and put up a vid for it someday. When I get the time...

That'd be awesome. I love this kinda stuff ^_^

Yetzirah
Jan 28, 2010, 03:23 PM
Good stuff, man. Dynamic tension is really great for training. Its used alot in Wing Chun too. I use it for training the forearms with a bokken. I basically swing it from the very end of the handle while isolating the movement to strictly wrist and a little elbow. Whats cool about dynamic tension is that you can do the same reps every time but increase the explosiveness of the reps. Benny the Jet Urquidez said the best way to develop lower body was running and dynamic tension-- dam why are my words underlined... ooops . Not bad for a guy who had over 100 fights, something like 50 k.o's and only lost one on technicality. I used to work with Dynamic Strength written by a guy named Harry Wong-- great book. I like how you have a sort of principle elemental breakdown of the exersizes described above. Very cool and zen-like. From doing alot of meditation, i've noticed that the more chi, ki that i can circulate through my body-- the more tension is possible. Ive always correlated chi and bioelectricity with nervous system energy, adrenaline--- may even produce alot of other chemicals in the body that make ithe muscles work harder. Ive been able to make my whole body sore as hell just from dynamic tension, so I def think it's practical, especially for a martial artist; at least as an added dimension to training. Peace

cheesedog
Jan 29, 2010, 01:47 AM
Glad you like it. Most people don't understand that tension and relaxation are two sides of the same coin, for physical health and for martial arts you need both. I used to have that Harry Wong book years ago, I lost it somewhere. It was pretty good as for the fighting techniques but as far as I remember there wasn't any health focus, more of a bodybuilding approach.

Yetzirah
Jan 29, 2010, 11:23 AM
Well, as far as the health aspects go-- i'd have to say i differ in my opinion about the health focus and i'll say why. He emphasizes the importance of the stretch, rotations and warmup aspects only AFTER he explains the severe importance of diaphragm breathing. As a yogi-- i find it extremely unique how he spoke of dan tien as being one of the most effective aspects of the dynamic tension exersizes, and regulated breathing, and how they influence for better or worse the development process. I look at it more from the point of this, that the more oxygen given to the body during the exersizes, the more intensely a person can clench their teeth into them. He also went into the visualization elements of seeing the muscles stretch in the minds eye while doing the exersizes to improve focus and quicker results. To me, at that time-- was highly different, especially when he spoke of storing energy in the navel-- which i know turns off most workout enthusiasts cause they really aren't sure how to apply this(i was even quite skeptical until i eventually "sparked" and it became a common experience-- When i finally had this happen, it opened up a whole new dimension to exersize which has carried over into the other things i do now-- well everything. I definitely see dynamic tension as a huge plus-- alot of guys just think its too much work doing it that way. Cheers.

cheesedog
Jan 30, 2010, 02:18 AM
Hmmm, maybe I need to get that book again. I lost it probably 15 or more years ago and don't remember much, and at the time I was just into the external side of the martial arts so all that you mentioned probably went unnoticed by me.

jamie253
Feb 23, 2010, 04:11 AM
Still in the experience stage with Stone Warrior but I think it's a very good thing. I started out with Stone Warrior a few years ago and then switched to Teet lo han chin chu'an and no lick kuen and started back up with Stone Warrior. I think the attacks on this methodology are baseless. Has anyone out there done the full 36 reps x 21 sets? Honestly? John Allen makes some extraordinary claims. I am thinking he is right.

cheesedog
Feb 23, 2010, 03:30 PM
I don't know a lot about Stone Warrior except that in the more advanced stages it takes 1.5 to 2 hours to do the workout. If that's all you want to do it's all right, I guess, but I'd rather use my workout time for more variety.

jamie253
Feb 24, 2010, 03:57 AM
[quote=cheesedog;179303]I don't know a lot about Stone Warrior except that in the more advanced stages it takes 1.5 to 2 hours to do the workout. If that's all you want to do it's all right, I guess, but I'd rather use my workout time for more variety.[/quote


yes, it takes 1.5 hrs. Teet lo han chin chu'an takes about 5- 10 minutes depending on how many reps. No lick kuen takes right at 20 minutes at the suggested 10 reps. It is clear that if you do Stone Warrior you need to be at 3-4 hours of workout. That is a difficult and near impossible time requirement for most. No question. I don't know whether it is worth it yet. Having only gotten to
24 reps and starting again after the aforementioned other sets. But I will see it through to 36. As I stated I think there is something to it.

cheesedog
Feb 24, 2010, 04:47 PM
I'm sure there's something to it, just make sure you do some soft chi gung to balance out all the hard chi gung you'll be doing.

jamie253
Feb 24, 2010, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the answer. That is a reasonable considered caution. Do you think yoga will qualify for soft chi gung? If not, what would you suggest?

cheesedog
Feb 25, 2010, 12:07 AM
It depends on the type of yoga you're doing. If your doing straight Hatha or some other form of mostly stationary yoga it would probably work. If you're into power yoga, Ashtanga, or some of the other styles that are more strength based it might be too much. The old standard 5 organ gung is a very good and easy to learn soft health based chi gung, there are vids of it on You Tube.

BigBasti
Feb 25, 2010, 02:37 PM
This is great stuff...
Im sure Im not even close at being "ok" at it but it makes me sweat like hell...


I am gonna try this out more often.

Thanks cheesedog

jamie253
Feb 26, 2010, 03:24 AM
It depends on the type of yoga you're doing. If your doing straight Hatha or some other form of mostly stationary yoga it would probably work. If you're into power yoga, Ashtanga, or some of the other styles that are more strength based it might be too much. The old standard 5 organ gung is a very good and easy to learn soft health based chi gung, there are vids of it on You Tube.

Thanks again. I had hoped some one would reply with some experience of Stone warrior/teet lo han etc or perhaps what you posted. Maybe another time.

I did some hsing yi for a few years so I am somewhat familiar with the concept of hard/ soft. Especially since for part of that time, I was also doing hard style. Which caused some problems. The more I experience the less I know.

Bissen
May 18, 2010, 06:47 AM
Ooh, I'd like to see these exercises on video!

Go Cheesedog, go! :D
I really need to up my endurance, plus it's really good for my stances in karate.

onelasttime
May 18, 2010, 06:18 PM
Yes Stone warrior, iron wire vest training and maybe even silk weaving can all do wonders. The problem with Iron Warrior is that is approached from a Shamistic internal energy standpoint not a kinesiological stand point...... They do not have you do the same movements for each side and often not even the boot directions ont he ground that your CHI might reverse it's flow! This is udder nonsense since no martial artist develops reversed CHI flow from doing Push-Up's, Pull-Up's, or any other body weight, self resistance,isometric or weight lifting movement! So it is a great workout and does do wonders for people but you have to really stop and think if 1.5-2 hours a day of this stuff is really what you think you need to be doing. It works better for upper body then lower and is not entirely balanced so keep that in mind. I think Amazone .com used to have the VHS tape version for $19 about 2 years ago might have gone up now that it is getting popular. I can tell you this much you have to build up slowly 2 hours of that stuff would wear most people down fast! Many inthe Self Resitance,Dynamic Resistance and Quasi Isometric training forms which I lump under the Russian Term Loadless traing which orignaly applied to a form of training almost identical to VRT training do a lot less then 2 hours a day and get great results!

In fact depending on my training goals I either use it as a means to increase volume or as a form of active recovery. Like most tools depending on how you use it you can do more then one thing with it!

cheesedog
May 18, 2010, 11:57 PM
The problem with Iron Warrior is that is approached from a Shamistic internal energy standpoint not a kinesiological stand point...... They do not have you do the same movements for each side and often not even the boot directions ont he ground that your CHI might reverse it's flow! This is udder nonsense since no martial artist develops reversed CHI flow from doing Push-Up's, Pull-Up's, or any other body weight, self resistance,isometric or weight lifting movement!

You won't develop "reversed chi flow" from pushups, pullups, etc., because you are not consciously moving energy while doing them. In chi gung you are moving with INTENT, a completely different matter. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS follow your teacher's advice when doing any type of energy work.

onelasttime
May 19, 2010, 01:51 AM
If it is intent only that matters then that weakens the argument of not doing some exercise in Iron Warrior or Stone Warrior or Iron Vest Training etc....even more since Ic an intend not to reverse the direction and flow of my chi all day long and do the exercise's for both sides then and it will never happen!

Understand I I know Locke and Berkly and the Idea of Intent and Perceptions and Primary and Secondary Characteristic and Eastern and Western Religious Views! I did not fall off the apple cart yesterday!I was doing Philosophy as a Metaphysical Exercise before most kids could ride a bike with out training wheels! So the Intent Arguments makes my case stronger. Stop and think about this I know I spell for shit but that does not make my mind any less able!

Think about the idea of Intent and how it makes almost anything doable. Take your thoughts vertical first and narrow then if you look expand them horizontally. It does not matter how you think it through my case is still stronger it is udder nonsense!

Keep in mind I am the guy that told John Peterson and his Cronnies on his own site politely mind you that they where full of shit to think that one had to believe in God or any Higher Power in order for the push-up to produce resutls! Someone that only believes in them self and no higher power ca do 1500 push-up's and day and eat right and get great results. If intent is the determining factor then nothing I believe matters only what the person performing the causative intends to effect so if you intend to build up your chest and you do something that effects them directly then then you get the results that go along with the causative. So no movement of itself can affect the internal with out directed thought on those things outside of the direct control of the physical! Chi is not physical sono movement by itself can affect it hence the need to meditate and believe in all form of internal arts. Thnk about it I can sit in my chair and think all the deep thoughts I want and no amount of thinking is ever going to do to my body what squating 800lbs. will do. Ont he other hand I can squat 800lbs. and it will not have any effect on my internal energy at all...No free lunch you can not "eat your cake and have it too!" all things ahve rule from metaphysical to kineisilogical to the physics of electricty all things are governed by laws including Chi!

Flipessorry
May 19, 2010, 05:47 PM
If it is intent only that matters then that weakens the argument of not doing some exercise in Iron Warrior or Stone Warrior or Iron Vest Training etc....even more since Ic an intend not to reverse the direction and flow of my chi all day long and do the exercise's for both sides then and it will never happen!

Understand I I know Locke and Berkly and the Idea of Intent and Perceptions and Primary and Secondary Characteristic and Eastern and Western Religious Views! I did not fall off the apple cart yesterday!I was doing Philosophy as a Metaphysical Exercise before most kids could ride a bike with out training wheels! So the Intent Arguments makes my case stronger. Stop and think about this I know I spell for shit but that does not make my mind any less able!

Think about the idea of Intent and how it makes almost anything doable. Take your thoughts vertical first and narrow then if you look expand them horizontally. It does not matter how you think it through my case is still stronger it is udder nonsense!

Keep in mind I am the guy that told John Peterson and his Cronnies on his own site politely mind you that they where full of shit to think that one had to believe in God or any Higher Power in order for the push-up to produce resutls! Someone that only believes in them self and no higher power ca do 1500 push-up's and day and eat right and get great results. If intent is the determining factor then nothing I believe matters only what the person performing the causative intends to effect so if you intend to build up your chest and you do something that effects them directly then then you get the results that go along with the causative. So no movement of itself can affect the internal with out directed thought on those things outside of the direct control of the physical! Chi is not physical sono movement by itself can affect it hence the need to meditate and believe in all form of internal arts. Thnk about it I can sit in my chair and think all the deep thoughts I want and no amount of thinking is ever going to do to my body what squating 800lbs. will do. Ont he other hand I can squat 800lbs. and it will not have any effect on my internal energy at all...No free lunch you can not "eat your cake and have it too!" all things ahve rule from metaphysical to kineisilogical to the physics of electricty all things are governed by laws including Chi!

You forgot to plug your Isometric book.

cheesedog
May 20, 2010, 01:32 AM
Berkely, Locke, and the nuts on the Transformetrics board have nothing to do with it. Go ahead and do chi gung anyway you please. After all, you know better than 1000's of practitioners who have studied, experimented, and developed these forms over centuries.




Good luck!

Bissen
Feb 08, 2011, 04:15 AM
CheeseDog: Please, please, please make an instructional video! This is perfect for my rehab, but unfortunately my imagination doesn't suffice when coming to visualize the performance of the routines.

Please, I beg you! :D