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OzVegan
Jan 03, 2009, 02:24 AM
Check this aggravating rubbish out:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=UmEOR6a68OE

I have felt Chi before from a Tai Chi Master so I can understand that, but this is ridiculous!

What sort of misguided mockery is this of well respected martial art styles?
I'd give them five minutes to try and knock over a solid concrete lump and if they failed, drop them onto the Afghanistan border and tell them to sonic boom their way out!

Cheeze_Baron
Jan 03, 2009, 03:00 AM
Empty force attacks are the most ridiculously funny things ever conceived. The icing on the cake is these people seem like they genuinely believe the fluff they talk about. Even if it was real it is so unpractical and useless in any if not most situations. In that clip it took over two minutes for the dude to make the other dude trip(by being startled), he got hurt not because of the "blast" but because his back hit one of the stage props.

billgetsstrong
Feb 25, 2009, 09:20 AM
I hate fakes too. go to kyusho.com and challenge them to prove they have this no touch ko skill. If you have the nerve they'll show you in person. But you have to meet them. LOL. it won't work long distance. LOL. But there are some who have skills that seem unreal until "you"
actually feel it yourself. They love proving it on newbee's. Trust me;
the Guys at kyusho.com are no BS'ers. I was doubtful myself too at first.;) but now I know better. But I actually visited them and didn't just badmouth things without testing it myself first. scientific methodology.

But yes there are way too many fakes out there in the internet land.
If you can cause someone to feel your ki you can inject it into them at touch nicely. that's the point of the exercise, not to make stage magic.
But to have effective self defense skills into old age. the earth was flat once too you know. Give Evan Pabtazi a call and challenge him to see
for yourself. I bet they have someone in your area who would be more than glad to help you in your own experiment. Bill =)

Fatman
Feb 25, 2009, 10:25 AM
Heh heh. The old frauds get exposed again.

My favorite "BS Power" demonstration:

http://bodyweightculture.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10967&highlight=tai+chi+master

olinek
Feb 25, 2009, 10:45 AM
wtf do you mean you have felt chi before from a tai chi master?

And my aunt says once they were at mass and this priest came from poland and he was all super holy and he could make people feel the holy spirit by touching them.. and she said he touched them and they felt it!!!!!:shock::shock:

Maybe the holy spirit is the christian name for chi? DO other Christians even believe in the holy spirit or is just that strange cult I grew up with?? This is an interesting new revelation for me. Maybe Jesus did travel to India and met Buddha and then went to CHina and trained with Shaolin monks?

The best was that video someone posted up here of some tubby karate master who was flinging people across the room. Then a physicist came in and they couldn't fling him around. WHy? Because he was lifting his upper toes and touching his tongue to the roof of his mouth apparently?

cheesedog
Feb 25, 2009, 04:33 PM
Give Evan Pabtazi a call and challenge him to see
for yourself. I bet they have someone in your area who would be more than glad to help you in your own experiment. Bill =)

Do you know Evan Pantazi? He taught one of my instructors. I've never had the honor of meeting him, but if even half the stuff I've heard about him is true he is VERY impressive.

cheesedog
Feb 25, 2009, 04:40 PM
The best was that video someone posted up here of some tubby karate master who was flinging people across the room. Then a physicist came in and they couldn't fling him around. WHy? Because he was lifting his upper toes and touching his tongue to the roof of his mouth apparently?

That was George Dillman, at one time he was a great instructor and innovator. Sadly the last dozen years or so he has gone a bit off the deep end. I did meet him at a seminar back in the early 90's and his power and knowledge were really something back then.

But about the lifting the toes, that does "disconnect" your energy from the ground, and touching your tongue to the roof of your mouth connects your energy more efficiently, so if no-touch was real (a VERY BIG if) it could possibly have an effect, FWIW.

Raja
Feb 26, 2009, 12:12 AM
The Aikido dojo I used to train at very heavily used the concept of Ki (Chi in Chinese, Prana in Hindi) in their training. Used to impress me quite a bit at first. But the more I dug into it the more I found it had to do with mental concentration, distracting your opponent, and fluid motions that used your opponents force against them and not some abstract forces of nature.

billgetsstrong
Feb 26, 2009, 07:25 AM
send me a pm to discuss this.

billgetsstrong
Feb 26, 2009, 07:34 AM
Jack Hogan: there's a clip on youtube of him doing a no touch ko.
He's in Jacksonville Florida for anyone who would like to visit him to test this out.

Cheesdog's correct about the grounding aspects. The feet and tongue do affect this skill. Counter to counter if you will. Iron Shirt. Whatever name you wanna give it. But BIOELECTRIC ENERGY is real and scientifically proven fact. Call it KI, CHI, PRANA, BIOMAGNATISM, WHATEVER.
I personally have been researching this area for a few decades and it's real folks. Just because you think the world's flat don't make it so.
It's easy to take potshots without trying it in person. Mankinds knowledge is increasing exponentially. A great outpouring of knowledge if you will.;)

I still remeber the first time I felt a HAPKIDO MASTER rub his hand across my body from across the room. Really freaky stuff. I didn't know he was going to do it so there was no placebo effect.

Cheeze_Baron
Feb 27, 2009, 12:01 AM
In the time it takes to develop the psychic ability to physically molest people from across the room you could have developed a pretty mean right hook.

Fatman
Feb 27, 2009, 02:14 AM
Ah, but touching people from across the room has more real-world application. Would make queuing a lot more fun, especially if there's a nice looking female around :)

billgetsstrong
Feb 27, 2009, 08:07 AM
Got that right fatman.;)

joellandry
Feb 27, 2009, 10:12 AM
I took a class in tai chi once. The instructor had us close our eyes and breathe deep. Then he had us open our eyes, quite a dramatic affect which he explained as ki.

At the time it seemed rather convincing but in retrospect it was a case of anecdotal evidence as proof.... if you ask me.

I dont doubt or deny the benefits to tai chi, martial arts, accupuncture, etc. etc. etc.

In my opinion, they are better off and easier to take without all the hyperbole.

OneTruth13
Feb 27, 2009, 10:31 AM
I still remeber the first time I felt a HAPKIDO MASTER rub his hand across my body from across the room. Really freaky stuff. I didn't know he was going to do it so there was no placebo effect.

Whoa!!! Did you like it?! hehehe:grin:

Pretty crazy stuff, did you ever get to learn how to do this type of stuff?

samthor
Feb 27, 2009, 12:57 PM
oh sure... right.... as long a your attacker is willing to wait the 2-3 minutes while you warm up....

Mighty Jalapeno
Feb 27, 2009, 03:13 PM
Hadooooken!

Sorry, I had to. :)

Raja
Feb 27, 2009, 04:01 PM
Hadooooken!


That's exactly what I thought when I saw the video of the chi fireball. Ahh the good ole down towards punch.

Mighty Jalapeno
Feb 27, 2009, 04:12 PM
That's exactly what I thought when I saw the video of the chi fireball. Ahh the good ole down towards punch.
"My friends call me Hadoken, because I'm down-right fierce."

CDavidNeely
Feb 27, 2009, 05:43 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,

I just had to post this considering the direction of the thread.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5lvU-DislkI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5lvU-DislkI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

billgetsstrong
Feb 28, 2009, 09:36 AM
I never got to that point, but I can cause another to feel my intent from a good distance. Learned that in the Marine Corps. Also used to misdirect
soldiers away from your position. The human potential is just that.
If you don't believe it you will never be able to do it, like many things.

It doesn't take any warm up time either unless your mind is completely out of focus. Ki/Chi is available any moment.

An exercie to try is;
1) go to a public area.
2) pick a person who's facing away from you and doesn't know you.
3) direct thoughts to that person to feel as if you were standing
right behind him/her.
4) the more malific your intent the faster it's felt.
5) try this on several people and note the results.
take into account some people are so unselfaware that you could
just as well physically walk up on them from behind. So don't count it as failure on your part.

The mind leads the chi follows. I.E. INTENT LEADS THE CHI.
Simple.

steveobur1000
Feb 28, 2009, 11:56 AM
The next UFC heavy champ.Lol.

cheesedog
Mar 01, 2009, 01:46 AM
I never got to that point, but I can cause another to feel my intent from a good distance. Learned that in the Marine Corps. Also used to misdirect
soldiers away from your position. The human potential is just that.
If you don't believe it you will never be able to do it, like many things.

It doesn't take any warm up time either unless your mind is completely out of focus. Ki/Chi is available any moment.

An exercie to try is;
1) go to a public area.
2) pick a person who's facing away from you and doesn't know you.
3) direct thoughts to that person to feel as if you were standing
right behind him/her.
4) the more malific your intent the faster it's felt.
5) try this on several people and note the results.
take into account some people are so unselfaware that you could
just as well physically walk up on them from behind. So don't count it as failure on your part.

The mind leads the chi follows. I.E. INTENT LEADS THE CHI.
Simple.

One of my instructors uses some of these techniques when he moonlights as a bouncer. Very useful in the real world if you know how. I found some of these useful when I was a bartender also.

bodylifter
Mar 21, 2009, 08:52 PM
I also have felt the effects of Chi. But from what I have been taught and seen that video is pure bull. A true master able to send a Chi blast such as that would not be doing it on a TV game show.

kcee
Apr 07, 2009, 01:46 AM
Hahahahaha!! CDavidNeely thanks for posting, that was hilarious. I can't belive those people hey

enjoyyy
Apr 10, 2009, 11:45 AM
What on earth just happened. I've seen a couple of other videos like this.

pasychosheep
Apr 12, 2009, 11:52 PM
Greetings and Felicitations,

I just had to post this considering the direction of the thread.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5lvU-DislkI&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5lvU-DislkI&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Sincerely Yours,
C. David Neely

Ahahahaha, that was great.

silentassassin
Apr 13, 2009, 12:52 AM
wtf do you mean you have felt chi before from a tai chi master?

And my aunt says once they were at mass and this priest came from poland and he was all super holy and he could make people feel the holy spirit by touching them.. and she said he touched them and they felt it!!!!!:shock::shock:

Maybe the holy spirit is the christian name for chi? DO other Christians even believe in the holy spirit or is just that strange cult I grew up with?? This is an interesting new revelation for me. Maybe Jesus did travel to India and met Buddha and then went to CHina and trained with Shaolin monks?

The best was that video someone posted up here of some tubby karate master who was flinging people across the room. Then a physicist came in and they couldn't fling him around. WHy? Because he was lifting his upper toes and touching his tongue to the roof of his mouth apparently?
:lol::lol::lol: You always say the funniest things, not because is suposed to be funny but because it kinda makes sence and what if you were right about 1/4 of the things you say like that! LOL

Jack Hogan: there's a clip on youtube of him doing a no touch ko.
He's in Jacksonville Florida for anyone who would like to visit him to test this out.

Cheesdog's correct about the grounding aspects. The feet and tongue do affect this skill. Counter to counter if you will. Iron Shirt. Whatever name you wanna give it. But BIOELECTRIC ENERGY is real and scientifically proven fact. Call it KI, CHI, PRANA, BIOMAGNATISM, WHATEVER.
I personally have been researching this area for a few decades and it's real folks. Just because you think the world's flat don't make it so.
It's easy to take potshots without trying it in person. Mankinds knowledge is increasing exponentially. A great outpouring of knowledge if you will.;)

I still remeber the first time I felt a HAPKIDO MASTER rub his hand across my body from across the room. Really freaky stuff. I didn't know he was going to do it so there was no placebo effect.
another name for it, "the zone"

RedZero
Apr 22, 2009, 12:06 AM
Anyone seen the videos of the guys getting punched in the throat or kicked in the nuts and they have no bruises or show no effects from the strikes at all? I was told this is a form of focusing all of your chi into the areas being struck to produce a type of "shielding" effect.

Cheeze_Baron
Apr 22, 2009, 04:43 PM
^Are you talking about the Juko Kai/Combat Ki folks?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45hWbIy5Fkk&feature=PlayList&p=5D633F734C37B99C&index=1&fmt=18
h**p://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45hWbIy5Fkk&feature=PlayList&p=5D633F734C37B99C&index=1&fmt=18
I find it funny that they'll take hits to the groin and throat but not take shots to the jaw/chin and nose etc.

RedZero
Apr 22, 2009, 05:18 PM
That is it! At the 39 second mark one of them take a shot to the jaw.

It is an interesting skill to say the least.

olinek
Apr 22, 2009, 05:30 PM
I didn't know this thread was still gong on.



I find it funny that they'll take hits to the groin and throat but not take shots to the jaw/chin and nose etc.

This is a good observation. I have been saying and saying, this Ki chi is internal pressure. You can create an enormous amount if pressure in your throat. The shaolin guys bend the spears with their throat.. or check out a video of David Whitley bending a bar across Mike The Machine Bruce's throat..

The nose on the other hand... it is a different animal, you can't build pressure in it.Same with the jaw.

As for bioelectric energy, no one denies it but not everyone accepts that it will let you feel up the cute girl's ass across the room. It is sketchy trying to justify something with a scientific principle you have no knowledge of (not directed at anyone). It like is all the bogus and nonsense that has been claimed and tried to be justified using the theories of relativity and quantum mechanics.

I was watching this interview with some weirdo called Deepak Chopra (one of those self help gurus, I bet he's been Oprah). ANyways he was beng interviewed by Richard Dawkins who is not even a physicist, and he calle dhim out on his concept of Quantum Healing. He gave his explanation and Dawkins confirmed that what he said had absolutely nothing to do with the principles given by Quantum mechanics. The end result was Deepak Chopra accusing the scientific community of kidnapping words and holding them for themselves.

Try it though, just expand your neck, kind of shortening it and push out and see how hard it becomes...

Fatman
Apr 23, 2009, 02:26 AM
I was watching this interview with some weirdo called Deepak Chopra (one of those self help gurus, I bet he's been Oprah). ANyways he was beng interviewed by Richard Dawkins who is not even a physicist, and he calle dhim out on his concept of Quantum Healing. He gave his explanation and Dawkins confirmed that what he said had absolutely nothing to do with the principles given by Quantum mechanics. The end result was Deepak Chopra accusing the scientific community of kidnapping words and holding them for themselves.

Yeah, Dawkins is that dude who exposes frauds like that, right?

He can get annoyingly repetitive, but one has to agree with the stuff he says.

My favorite is that old fraud Sri Chinmoy claiming to have lifted 7,000 lbs. with one arm. Or Sai Baba, whose bullshit never gets old even after who-knows-how-many decades of peddling it. I am surprised that adult people fall for this sort of BS, or "Ki strikes" or whatever. Then again, there is a child in each and every one of us...

Raja
Apr 23, 2009, 03:35 AM
Dawkins is a bit annoying, too serious imo. James Randi is much better. Shermer also writes some good Skeptic mag articles.


My favorite is that old fraud Sri Chinmoy claiming to have lifted 7,000 lbs. with one arm. Or Sai Baba, whose bullshit never gets old even after who-knows-how-many decades of peddling it. I am surprised that adult people fall for this sort of BS, or "Ki strikes" or whatever. Then again, there is a child in each and every one of us...

At the risk of offending some...you can extend this line of thought very easily to religion. Simply pick up a religious text and replace 'god' with 'santa claus'...

Anyone here seen the movie Religulous?

Fatman
Apr 23, 2009, 04:00 AM
At the risk of offending some...you can extend this line of thought very easily to religion. Simply pick up a religious text and replace 'god' with 'santa claus'...

And you make the very point I wanted to make... but I didn't say it directly, so I don't offend anyone :):):)

No, I haven't seen "Religulous". Heard good stuff about it though, even from people who I thought to be "religulous" themselves, so I'm really interested in seeing it. Will check my trusted torrent download sites.

olinek
Apr 23, 2009, 11:36 AM
Yeah, Dawkins is that dude who exposes frauds like that, right?

He can get annoyingly repetitive, but one has to agree with the stuff he says.

My favorite is that old fraud Sri Chinmoy claiming to have lifted 7,000 lbs. with one arm. Or Sai Baba, whose bullshit never gets old even after who-knows-how-many decades of peddling it. I am surprised that adult people fall for this sort of BS, or "Ki strikes" or whatever. Then again, there is a child in each and every one of us...

Yes a biologist, who then kind of switched his focus to religious stuff. Wrote some book called God Delusion. Yes he can be very annoying. In fact going die hard against religion is not even a scientific concept, if he was really about science he would just be observing religion as a biological phenomenon. But no doubt I understand fully, he is just seriously frustrated and fed up with retards. Still he tends to be a crybaby kind of.

Sri Chimnoy was a fuck tard as well. Man I know of him, because 2 of my favourite guitarists used to be "followers" of his. John Mclaughlin and Santana. Dunno what happened between Chimnoy and John, but Santana at some point just got fed up with the dude. He said he was just trying to do some meditation and what not and this guy was having him constantly train for marathons lmao. Never heard of Sai Baba will check him out.


Dawkins is a bit annoying, too serious imo. James Randi is much better. Shermer also writes some good Skeptic mag articles.

Anyone here seen the movie Religulous?

Haven't heard of the 2 other ppl you mentioned, will check em out. I haven't sen religulous, although I wanna. But I find Maher can be annoying as fuck as well. No doubt he is funny, but man he can be a hell of a crybaby and Obama being pres has made him seriously unfunny, it seems he would be glad to suck him off.


The funniest one of those authours or ppl who own religion or what not is Christopher Hitchens. He is just such a damn englishman, so fucking arrogant and pompous I love it.

Cheeze_Baron
Apr 23, 2009, 08:08 PM
I saw Dawkins God Delusion documentary/program and thought it was good, never bothered w/ the book. I can understand folks being put off by Dawkins "militant" atheism. When I'm not so lazy I need to remind myself to checkout Religulous, I wanted to see that since I saw commercials for it but since forgot about it. Man, sometimes I wish psychic nonsesne was real so I could figure it out myself and take up the million dollar challenge that James Randi did, I heard though that he's stopping that and using the money for a scholarship program.

TheMasterKey
Apr 23, 2009, 09:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM0LLAlgPnc&feature=related
:lol:

Raja
Apr 24, 2009, 12:02 AM
Never heard of Sai Baba will check him out.



The guy's another quack with a surprisingly huge following around the world. He's from the same part of India my parents are from. Around that region, people often will react *violently* if you question him or his supposed miracles. Cults are fun that way.

Fatman
Apr 24, 2009, 02:13 AM
The guy's another quack with a surprisingly huge following around the world. He's from the same part of India my parents are from. Around that region, people often will react *violently* if you question him or his supposed miracles. Cults are fun that way.

This guy is insanely popular. Little grannies from my part of the world who have never set foot outside their home town will save their pension money to travel to India and see him work his "magic". Unbelievable what sort of control these "guru" types can have over the masses.

olinek
Apr 27, 2009, 11:14 AM
aight I watched religulous. It was decent. Pretty much exactly what I expected.

The best part was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewTuAeMJbDs

Raja
Apr 28, 2009, 06:19 PM
That guy was awesome. I actually wish Bill spent some time on eastern religious folks like Sai Baba or even Buddhism. He's supposed to have a show on HBO about this, should be good.

olinek
Apr 28, 2009, 07:03 PM
yea the movie didnt have anything about eastern religions.

All stuff about the abrahamic ones.. and a bit of scientology bashing.

Journeyman
Apr 28, 2009, 07:52 PM
You notice that Bill only bashed the guys who couldn't defend themselves. The only guy who could actually make a coherent argument for himself was the vatican scientist/astronomer and there was only a minute of footage with him in it.

There were some good points made. But Bill is a jackass, and in the 2nd half when he tried to send some message it pissed me off. 'avoid religion or die' what the hell is that?

olinek
Apr 28, 2009, 08:05 PM
You notice that Bill only bashed the guys who couldn't defend themselves. The only guy who could actually make a coherent argument for himself was the vatican scientist/astronomer and there was only a minute of footage with him in it.

There were some good points made. But Bill is a jackass, and in the 2nd half when he tried to send some message it pissed me off. 'avoid religion or die' what the hell is that?

Iunno if I agree with your first statement. I mean the reason they made a poor defense is cause they were retarded and the point of the movie was show how retarded these people can be.

Maher can be a jack ass ( I love it obviously) but you are right the end was kind of intense. It didn't bother me but I was like "wo chill bro this is a comedy ain't it?" or something. But he was just saying his message though, like most religions say theres (we should know here...). The point of the movie though if anything was he should be able to express himself like that "avoid religion or die" without being confronted by offense from religions.

Journeyman
Apr 28, 2009, 08:16 PM
I guess, free speech and all. But religion per se does not cause violence etc. Like he made it seem. Evil people cause violence, and they use religion as an excuse to get followers, like say many "Islamic' extremists they promise the whole paradise thing to get poor suckers to blow themselves up. People kill people using religion as an excuse. Religion doesn't kill people.

olinek
Apr 28, 2009, 08:57 PM
I guess, free speech and all. But religion per se does not cause violence etc. Like he made it seem. Evil people cause violence, and they use religion as an excuse to get followers, like say many "Islamic' extremists they promise the whole paradise thing to get poor suckers to blow themselves up. People kill people using religion as an excuse. Religion doesn't kill people.

sorry I don't believe in good or evil, so I don't believe in ppl being born evil. What I know is that 95% of ones ideas/beliefs/knowledge is learned from his environment, your own input is minimal. Iunno if you live in the big city or not, but when I moved to a big city I learned that stereotypes are in fact there for a reason, the majority of people fit their stereotype. I have observed eveyr culture to have its stereotype, I will spare bwc the specifics, someone might even accuse me of being racist. But anyways just the same, the religion someone is brought up in influences them tremendously.. often shapes them and that is why some believe that religion is dangerous

silentassassin
Apr 28, 2009, 10:34 PM
Sorry to get off topic but I hate racist people (usually minorities) that call other people racist (who usually arent) to cover up their racism. lol

olinek
Apr 28, 2009, 11:33 PM
yea that happens a lot actually.

Fatman
Apr 29, 2009, 02:16 AM
Religion doesn't kill people.

Ah, but neither do guns. They are perfectly harmless pieces of metal, even when loaded.

Why can't we declare idiots to be a "race"? Reduced capacity for thinking is also mostly genetically pre-determined, like skin colour or eye shape. Then people could be racist and feel good about it (except for olinek, he would still be a minority hating racist).

Raja
Apr 29, 2009, 02:53 AM
The only downside was the end of the movie which got a bit too preachy. However Bill Maher had to cover a lot of ground in just one and half hours.

Personally I don't just limit my distaste to just religion, but to irrational behavior as a whole. I'm a firm skeptic. I place religion in the same category as belief in astrology, homeopathic medicine, chi/ki, and the tooth fairy.



Sorry to get off topic but I hate racist people (usually minorities) that call other people racist (who usually arent) to cover up their racism

Lol, from personal experience I get more hate from other minorities than from white people. But then again I happened to be the only Indian guy in an all black and white school.

Journeyman
Apr 29, 2009, 09:40 PM
Olinek: I like to believe that people are inherently good. But then there are bad guys out there no matter what made them that way.

Fatman: I know about the guns thing, that is actually what I was thinking of. But guns are different imo...designed specifically to kill stuff. You look at all the major religions, and you don't see God/yahweh/Allah/great spirit/however commanding genocide although so many people interpret in so many ways twisting good words to their own means.

olinek
Apr 29, 2009, 09:45 PM
Olinek: I like to believe that people are inherently good. But then there are bad guys out there no matter what made them that way.

Fatman: I know about the guns thing, that is actually what I was thinking of. But guns are different imo...designed specifically to kill stuff. You look at all the major religions, and you don't see God/yahweh/Allah/great spirit/however commanding genocide although so many people interpret in so many ways twisting good words to their own means.

your words lead me to believe you have never read the old testament in its entirety. There are passages which are word for word just fucked up, like reading Mein Kampf or a book on white supremacy or something.

Journeyman
Apr 29, 2009, 09:48 PM
Well yeah some stuff you do have to take with a LARGE pinch of salt to say the least. Just remember that the writings reflect the times. People were WAY racist then, and violence was everywhere, I mean I think sometimes things are bad now but back then? Just terrible.
So times have changed, which is why we need PROGRESSIVE interpretations if we want to live by scripture.

olinek
Apr 29, 2009, 09:55 PM
lol bwc loves religion talk.


Well yeah some stuff you do have to take with a LARGE pinch of salt to say the least. Just remember that the writings reflect the times. People were WAY racist then, and violence was everywhere, I mean I think sometimes things are bad now but back then? Just terrible.
So times have changed, which is why we need PROGRESSIVE interpretations if we want to live by scripture.

ain't that a logical conundrum?

-God is beyond time..
-God's words are a reflection of the times

Journeyman
Apr 29, 2009, 10:00 PM
lol bwc loves religion talk.



ain't that a logical conundrum?

-God is beyond time..
-God's words are a reflection of the times

We do apparently.

Well it isn't as though He sat down and wrote the bible. People did to explain things they couldn't, and the belief is that they were inspired by a greater force of good to pass on the message.

To avoid problems with belief such as "so should I go massacre the assyrians?" just concentrate on the more direct, supposedly, words of God from the New Testament.

Journeyman
Apr 29, 2009, 10:02 PM
-God is beyond time..
-God's words are a reflection of the times

That vatican astronomer said it the best. Something like, "yes the bible is the word of God, not direct but written through inspiration. How can you expect there to be advanced scientific explanations in the old testament? People didn't know that then."

olinek
Apr 29, 2009, 10:09 PM
i prefer the old testament. It is far more enjoyable to read lol. The new testament is too damn modern, I mean I am sure Jesus was a nice guy and all but he is kind of a pansy, I doubt he squatted much.

Old testament on the other hand is good reading. I always liked that movie ten commandments with the NRA guy lol, charles something.


But seriously, what i am saying is that if the words are inspired by god:

a) the interpreters fucked up or were assholes.
b) god fucked up in giving his message, he shoulda been clearer.
c) noone fucked up. If this is the case we have a God who ain't all rainbows and roses. He's the kind of guy I would call out to play shot for shot after a few drinks at a bar.

Fatman
Apr 30, 2009, 02:09 AM
Old testament on the other hand is good reading. I always liked that movie ten commandments with the NRA guy lol, charles something.

Charlton Heston! He was also in Ben Hur. Those two were my favorite movies when I was a kid... after Rambo 3 and Back to the Future, of course.

I was really sad when I learned that he was the cahirman of the NRA, or something. In his defense, he was very old and probably very senile at the time. That's the only reason I can think of for him behaving like an idiot. But as much as I hate violent cretins, Charlton remains a hero. The chariot race in Ben Hur is something that just can't be beat, or repeated.

olinek
Apr 30, 2009, 10:31 AM
yarhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you see fatman knows where it is at.

I dunno, I've never seen Passions of Christ but I am not sure it would be as exciting. Scorsese tried to add some kinky excitement to his movie Temptations of Christ, and some noble christians burned down a cinema.

kingshadowwolf
May 01, 2009, 12:42 AM
Mahrer is a biased person and claims to write him self off as agnostic thats a lie its very clear hes an atheist or damn close...but you know what funny...for no believing in god atheist have a pretty damn big problem with him

silentassassin
May 01, 2009, 01:19 AM
lol thats funny cause its kinda true

Fatman
May 01, 2009, 02:20 AM
Mahrer is a biased person and claims to write him self off as agnostic thats a lie its very clear hes an atheist or damn close...but you know what funny...for no believing in god atheist have a pretty damn big problem with him

Yeah, I guess if you're trying to make money off being an atheist (and that dude apparently is) you tend to start to sound more and more like a religious nutcase yourself... kind of defeats the whole purpose.

Although I think his problem is not with god, it's with "religulous" people who try to impose their beliefs on others. Most of these men and women don't really get the message of religious scripture - they tend to mistake ritual behaviour for spiritual behaviour. In other words, you can be a lying, cheating, thieving, even murdering a-hole 6 days in a week, then go to church on a Sunday or whatever and pray for about an hour, looking all solemn, and that makes you a good Christian/Muslim/whatever the flavor of the day is. And then you assume a stance of "moral superiority" over others who choose to sleep in on a Sunday morning. The sad part is, god doesn't come into the equation for these people either.

Can't speak for Mahrer or whatever his name is, but I can assure you I have no problems with god. I might have a problem with a-holes, but even that is decreasing, as I find new ways to deal with all the little irritating things that surround me. Mahrer doesn't have that privilege, because he bashes them for a living. In a way, he is also a slave of their ridiculous dogma.

olinek
May 01, 2009, 10:18 AM
Mahrer is a biased person and claims to write him self off as agnostic thats a lie its very clear hes an atheist or damn close...but you know what funny...for no believing in god atheist have a pretty damn big problem with him

yes and no.

Look it is impossible to disprove God.. absolutely impossible. That makes anyone with atheistic tendencies.. an agnostic.

But if someone asked me am I atheist or agnostic.. I would say atheist.. just cause I am an asshole and don't wanna sound like a pussy who is unsure of himself.

But my justification and most other agnostic atheists is that just like you can't disprove God of Judaism, you can't disprove God of Christianity, can't disprive Allah, can't disprove the Mormon God, can't disprove reincarnation, can't disprove Shiva, Brahman etc, can't disprove Zeus, Jupiter, can't disprove Perun... etc

So yo realize that of all the possible possibilities.. there is only 1 chance that a particular God is the real one (based purely on statistical analysis).
And how many possibilities is there? Well infinite, I could spend my whole life coming up with them: tooth fairy created the world, Santa did, satan did, Xenu did w/e...

So based on statistics you have 1/infinite chance that some idea is the right one. 1/infinity approaches zero.... which is absolutely not a proof of inexistance of God but based on a rational analysis it leads me to accept that they are all equally irrelevant.

silentassassin
May 01, 2009, 02:20 PM
So what you are saying is there is no reall proof that any god exisists but there is also no proof that one doesnt.

olinek
May 01, 2009, 02:33 PM
So what you are saying is there is no reall proof that any god exisists but there is also no proof that one doesnt.

hmm no.

I look at this stuff in terms of math, I just can't help it, I'm taking physics in university and I wouldn't be in it if I didn't think math.

So in math to PROVE a theorem ('law') an example is not good enough. You cannot prove a theorem using an example.. you can disprove a hypothetical theorem using a counter example though. I am sure this makes no sense to you if you haven't done any proofs in math classes but w/e lol.

So what I am saying is that one could not prove the inexistance of God with an example. I could disprove a potential God idea though with a counter example, except since there is an infinite possibilities of God, everyone has their own damn idea of God you can't provide an infinite amount of counter examples.

So:

your talking to a dude who believes earth is 6000 years old.

you say: dinosaurs???????????????? we have fossils.

there are 3 possibilities of what he will say:

a) God put them their to test our faith (he is a trickster loL)
b) the Jews created them and have been rigging carbon dating, to lead potential christians away from Jesus and lead them to Communism.
c) Dinosaurs were in the garden of Eden but everytime we try to carbon date them God interferes with the tests and skews the results by many magnitudes because he wants us to stop investigating his creation.

So its a vicious cycle. you gotta now find an example to disprove all three of those things, but then more rebuttles will arise and you just get end up like a dog chasing his own tail.

Fatman
May 01, 2009, 02:47 PM
Well, there is no point in trying to prove or disprove the existence of god. The idea of divine existence does not require proof, just faith. This is why it is bullet-proof and has survived for so many years.

The very definition of the term "faith" implies that people BELIEVE in something (e.g. a god). They are not convinced by the power of evidence, "proof" is unnecessary.

In science, say physics, if someone claims that an apple falls to the ground under the influence of gravity, then you drop the apple and it floats upward into orbit, the theory is obviously incorrect. Science requires logic and factual evidence. This proof - the apple falling to the ground - is the reason why we believe in science.

Faith requires no such proof. You simply say "there is a god" and you believe it. You believe that dinos are there to "test your faith", and that the movement of the tide cannot possibly be the result of the gravitational pull of the Moon. This is why scientists and religulous people should not try to prove each other wrong. Anybody with a basic grasp of high-school biology will not buy into the "dinos as test of faith" stuff. Someone who disputes evolution can never be persuaded to understand scientific concepts - the faith system is there, and anything that attempts to demonstrate its inherent flaws must be destroyed (remember what happened to the first guy with the audacity to suggest that the Earth orbits the Sun - things haven't really changed, except that today the Church doesn't yield the same amount of power).

silentassassin
May 01, 2009, 02:48 PM
I get it!

RemoWilliams
May 12, 2009, 12:42 AM
I have not seen the Bill Maher movie, so I can't comment. But, I've practiced both Tomiki Aikido and Hsing-I, so I know a bit about Chi.

All my teachers have been pretty down-to-earth about it. Replace "Chi" with "Energy" and you begin to see how it functions as a catch all word. Chiefly for things that are not mystical, but are just not explainable.

For example, "In the Zone". We've all been "In the Zone". Days in which your game or workout flows like water and you know before you even try something that you'll do it perfectly. And, a lot of the time you can't explain why. It's the same as having good "Chi".

Furthermore, the more you practice something, the greater your chances are that you'll get good Chi or be In the Zone. That's because your body is beginning to understand in subtle ways that your conscious mind isn't grasping. Ways to shift your stance for better balance. Moments to relax and save the energy vs. moments to really pour on the power. Etc. (Not that you don't have to work your ass off to order to understand this stuff.)

And, one day, you wake up and you can do things that look like magic to a newbie. Pretty cool.

Remo Williams,
The Master of Sinanju.

Raja
May 12, 2009, 02:10 PM
For example, "In the Zone". We've all been "In the Zone". Days in which your game or workout flows like water and you know before you even try something that you'll do it perfectly. And, a lot of the time you can't explain why. It's the same as having good "Chi".


Being in the zone has to do with the actions of the sympathetic nervous system, not Chi. Heightened sensory perception and speeded up heart rate are what cause this state.



Replace "Chi" with "Energy" and you begin to see how it functions as a catch all word

You mean thermal or kinetic energy?


And, one day, you wake up and you can do things that look like magic to a newbie.

Like?

RemoWilliams
May 13, 2009, 11:42 PM
I don't mean energy in the sense of something from a physics experiment. I mean personal energy, which can run the gamut from metabolism to emotions.

For example, being "In the Zone" is a physical state, but what about the stuff that puts you in the zone? Sometimes it's because you changed your diet. Or, it's because you have a new playlist on your IPod. Maybe you've met the girl of your dreams. Some professional athletes draw energy off the roars of the crowd or the spirit of thier teammates. And, sometimes, you just have good energy and you don't know why.

Again, there's nothing mystical about this. Merely both vague and highly individualistic.

And the stuff that seems like magic?

One of the things that is contantly stressed in Hsing-I (Kenny Gong Lineage) are breathing and movement exercises that involve opening and closing the ribs by using the intercostal (Spelling?) muscles. In the same sense that a boxer uses his hips to generate power (Which we learn as well), you use those ribs muscles to generate power for punches and throws. My teacher can be apparently standing still (In a loose shirt, you don't see the rib motion), but he can still generate unexpected power in his punch and smack you into left field.

A lot of mystical types would have blown smoke about Chi, but my teacher just waves that off and says "It's the ribs". And, even when you know the logic behind it all, it's still a super cool thing to experience.

Remo Williams,
The Master of Sinanju.

Journeyman
May 14, 2009, 04:18 PM
I believe that Pavel and sonnon do a good job of explaining some aspects of that.

Zombo
May 14, 2009, 06:34 PM
I know what Remo is talking about....I've been in that "place" where everything is perfect, in sync and I can attain any goal within reason. The Zone is an apt description.

Cheeze_Baron
May 15, 2009, 02:49 PM
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi has written about and done research on "in the zone" moments and refers to it as "flow".

Raja
May 20, 2009, 01:29 AM
I don't mean energy in the sense of something from a physics experiment. I mean personal energy, which can run the gamut from metabolism to emotions.

For example, being "In the Zone" is a physical state, but what about the stuff that puts you in the zone? Sometimes it's because you changed your diet. Or, it's because you have a new playlist on your IPod. Maybe you've met the girl of your dreams. Some professional athletes draw energy off the roars of the crowd or the spirit of thier teammates. And, sometimes, you just have good energy and you don't know why.

Again, there's nothing mystical about this. Merely both vague and highly individualistic.

And the stuff that seems like magic?

One of the things that is contantly stressed in Hsing-I (Kenny Gong Lineage) are breathing and movement exercises that involve opening and closing the ribs by using the intercostal (Spelling?) muscles. In the same sense that a boxer uses his hips to generate power (Which we learn as well), you use those ribs muscles to generate power for punches and throws. My teacher can be apparently standing still (In a loose shirt, you don't see the rib motion), but he can still generate unexpected power in his punch and smack you into left field.



Here's the problem. You make a broad enough definition of it, then you can use it to explain everything. And in the end it makes little scientific sense, especially when we are talking physiology. That's my problem with chi/ki/prana.

Metabolism and emotions are not one and the same thing. Metabolism is related to how your body consumes energy, emotions to other aspects of neurophysiology. I'm sure the zone is induceable since people from a wide range of fields like athletics, to chess players, and video gamers get in the zone. But this is symply a sympathetic nervous system response.

Fatman
May 20, 2009, 02:28 AM
So "the Zone" actually means... getting good at a certain skill.

Sure, if it's something exotic, like punching people with your ribs or whatever that was all about, it has a certain aura of mysticism so people tend to view it as some sort of internal power or energy or chi.

Maybe that looks like magic to a newbie... but so does driving a car, doing your taxes, or playing pool - someone who's never tried their hand at any of those things will be very impressed even by a person with rather average proficiency at any of these :)

olinek
May 20, 2009, 12:03 PM
you fools are going to Chi HELL... bet you had no idea huh????????????????????

-------

A russian and an american die and unfortunately both did not make the cut to heaven, so God tells them "sorry boys, but you have option of picking between Russian hell and American hell". They ask about the difference. American hell: you do what you want but every morning you have to eat a bucket of shit.
Russian hell: same as american, you do what you want except you have to eat 2 buckets of shit everymorning....

Well they ponder a little, then the americans picks the american hell and the Rusek picks the Russian hell.

So they meet up some time later and the Russian asks: "how is American hell". American replies "just how God described it, do what you want but gotta eat that terrible bucket of shit.... how about Russian hell"??? Russian replies: "great, feels like I'm back at home in the motherland. Either there is not enough buckets for everyone.. or they forget to bring them alltogether."