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View Full Version : need to get back into MA, but which?



olinek
Oct 04, 2008, 01:51 PM
Hello there. Title says most of it but I will expand.

I was in "freestyle karate" as a kid for some 8 years or so. It was basically a Funakoshi based Karate embracing JKD concepts. I worked up to a brown belt at which point the dojo turned right before my eyes into a McDojo. At this point I started going to a a karate enthusiasts paradise. This didn't last too long as the Sensei was all the worst business man, and he never collected payments, eventually he had to close down.

I haven't been in MA since grade 9 or so and I am in 2nd year Uni now. When I got into strength and conditioning, my MA spirit started rekindling. But I am completely unsure of what to join. At first I was certain JKD was for me, but I now realize JKD is for me to apply as a philosophy and nothing more.

I always loved sparring above all else, standing and ground, but I have started to gain an interst in my biggest weakness: acrobatics. Capoiera interests me but lacks the physical element. Judo interests me but lacks the standing, I have enough time in Karate to say I want something else. Kickboxing I suppose is interesting but lacks the ground work. I have a certain fetish for Kung Fu, a result of too many shaolin movies..I understand there are MMA gyms now which although have standup and ground present, I have a feeling they lack any martial arts attitude and anyone I have ever met who attend MMA gyms are the antithesis of the crowd I would enjoy: UFC addicted meatheads.

I am not into Gis and belts and all that traditional MA heirarchy stuff yet I feel modern MAs lack the traditional MA attitude.

Perhaps I should find a dojo that has various MA's where I will b e allowed to attend what I want, where I want.

I think I have given enough info.. what do you think??

Al

silentassassin
Oct 04, 2008, 04:31 PM
I have a feeling they lack any martial arts attitude and anyone I have ever met who attend MMA gyms are the antithesis of the crowd I would enjoy: UFC addicted meatheads.

I am not into Gis and belts and all that traditional MA heirarchy stuff yet I feel modern MAs lack the traditional MA attitude.

I totally agree with you on that


If you have the money I think a gym with several separate martial arts is a good idea. Depending on where you live you might want to check out catch wrestling and kung fu. I would definitely learn kung fu if I could, there are many different arts that the shaolin monks pratice and I believe that the do, do some ground work. the only temples that I know are in NYC and California (and of course china)

Im am planning on learning Muay Thai if I can find a good place for it.

cheesedog
Oct 05, 2008, 01:59 AM
That's a tough question to answer. The best advice I could give would be shop around and try a few classes, see what fits.

Journeyman
Oct 05, 2008, 09:16 AM
Look at a few styles. Watch competitions, check out the schools and their training. Be sure of the rules and get to know the styles' background, etc. Maybe try a few things before commiting.

What do you want-something showy, or difficult, or a true 'art' that's been around a long time? Something traditional or just for fun? You have to answer this yourself man!

Fatman
Oct 05, 2008, 02:09 PM
My vote would go to judo. Okay, I may be a bit biased, but there are several things that you get with judo that seem to be lacking from other martial arts:

1) It is a traditional art with a set list of techniques, without a lot of ridiculous innovations that seem to characterize contemporary "fusion cuisine" BS like MMA, UFC and similar crap.

2) It is similar to wrestling in many aspects, therefore it develops power, strength AND endurance - most guys I know who train in other training styles severely lack raw strength. Technique and endurance are cool, but an athlete needs strength and power too. In judo you won't find any "wise old sifus" with the muscular development of a concentration camp victim who also has the bad fortune to suffer from anorexia, who abound in other "pajama sports".

3) It discourages dickheads from coming to classes - thugs just don't have the focus and willpower, not to mention intelligence, to stick to judo because it takes a while for what you learned to become applicable. I guess you could say the same for karate. Newbies will spend the first three months just learning how to fall, something the average thug or redneck just doesn't have the mental stamina to cope with. "I wants something to beat people up reeeeal quick and good" he will exclaim, and move on to the traditional redneck, mouth-breathing entertainment of MMA and UFC (and maybe NASCAR). This is a HUGE advantage of traditional martial arts that many people tend to overlook - throwing flying roundhouse kicks while screaming like a lower-end porn star tends to attract more attention. But it doesn't work. There was only one Bruce Lee.

4) Unlike "mixed martial arts instructors" who are often guys who learned their stuff by watching a tape (or got certified by someone who did), judo instructors are actually people with experience in the sport or in training for the sport. They are aware of proper warmup, strength, skill and conditioning drills. McDojos are notorious for injuring people.

Just my 2 cents...

cheesedog
Oct 05, 2008, 03:40 PM
Good post Fatman!

I'm kinda at the same place as Olinek. I dropped out of all MA a while ago to let myself heal up. First time in years I wasn't doing Kempo, or some judo and kickboxing on the side. Now that I've been away for a while I'm starting to think of doing something else, at least for a year or two. There's a yoga school just 10 minutes away that just started offering a capoiera class, I'm actually considering it. I'd probably be the oldest guy there.

olinek
Oct 05, 2008, 05:21 PM
Blah there are just too many damn martial arts these days. Fatman what you are saying is dead on, I just feel I might miss the stand up fighting if I choose Judo.

I don't really wanna do Kung Fu, cause after so many years of Karate I am somewhat sick of forms and stuff. I understand their use in conditioning and technique training and what not but I am already doing conditioning on my own time.

Being a University student and all, I am not exactly growing caash out of my ass. I worked my tits off 1st year and have a devent amount saved up, but I am not working now and spending 100 $ a month (which seems to be the avg) will thin me out relatively quick unless I start working again.

What I really want to find is some organization where like minded people come to exchange ideas and spar. No belts, no styles, no meatheads, no bullshit.
Does something like this exist.???

Being the lonestar son of a bitch that I am, I would just get a punching bag and do things on my own like I always do... But there is no substitue for a good sparring partner.

Maybe I should try to organize something like this... Montreal is big enough it could have some candidates?? I don't know.

Journeyman
Oct 05, 2008, 09:59 PM
I love watching san shou kung fu, you should try it. I want to do it when I go to college and get a car, and start making some $$. Reasons to do it-

1. kickboxing, with throws but no ground grappling
2. very fast, intense, aggresive, showy and exciting.
3. fun to watch and looks like fun to do
4. full contact, and a very popular sport.
5. look up 'Cung Le' on youtube, or just 'san shou' if you want to see it. A preview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3r55mxK2xKc

and also, in a more competitive and harder hitting fight, also starring Cung;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWjh4HTiDBk

olinek
Oct 05, 2008, 10:10 PM
I know of Cung Le, I have probably watched him more than any other MMArtist.

I will look into San Shou.

Journeyman
Oct 05, 2008, 10:13 PM
Le is one of my MA heroes. San shou is good, but what have you done for other martial arts? Ideally for starting sanshou you should have experience in TKD and western boxing. It's not necessary though.

olinek
Oct 05, 2008, 10:25 PM
Le is one of my MA heroes. San shou is good, but what have you done for other martial arts? Ideally for starting sanshou you should have experience in TKD and western boxing. It's not necessary though.

I started out with TKD although I must have been 5 or 6. Qickly moved on to Karate and stuck with that. No experience in boxing, and never had an interest in it for that matter.

EvilOne
Oct 05, 2008, 11:31 PM
What do you have available locally???

olinek
Oct 06, 2008, 12:33 PM
Montreal is one of the biggest cities in Canada, so probably most things.

Even the rare things like ninjutsu which I gotta admit is also interesting but I have no hope that the ninjutsu taught here is anything more than some mumbo jumbo taught to black dressed, fat kids who wanna be ninjas.

CSta
Oct 06, 2008, 01:28 PM
Have you checked to see if there are any MA clubs at the university? I went to Ohio State, and it seems like there was a club for every-damn thing. I played water polo myself.

Even if there isn't a specific club that meets your interests, I bet if you speak with a few people in them, you'd find a few persons looking for something like you are.

silentassassin
Oct 06, 2008, 01:32 PM
Ninjutsu would be amazing, but its not just fighting and a lot of it might be outdated

Journeyman
Oct 06, 2008, 05:25 PM
Ninjutsu would be amazing, but its not just fighting and a lot of it might be outdated

True ninjitsu will never be outdated. But there is only 1 official school in Japan, and no one (actually I think maybe one old U.S. guy) outside Japan is authorized to teach it, so beware scams!

EvilOne
Oct 06, 2008, 05:44 PM
Well I am not a big traditional guy, I know your not either, so that weighs alot. I would suggest anything with grappeling. Heck why not mma. Definetly go somewhere that there is contact. No contact=no interest

Journeyman
Oct 06, 2008, 09:37 PM
Well I am not a big traditional guy, I know your not either, so that weighs alot. I would suggest anything with grappeling. Heck why not mma. Definetly go somewhere that there is contact. No contact=no interest

Absolutely right IMO.

Hey you know we should have an mma section of the forum. :idea:

cheesedog
Oct 06, 2008, 11:37 PM
True ninjitsu will never be outdated. But there is only 1 official school in Japan, and no one (actually I think maybe one old U.S. guy) outside Japan is authorized to teach it, so beware scams!

That's true, of all the "McDojo" places around, the fake ninjitsu places are the worst, with the fake "Shaolin" kung-fu places a close second.

Journeyman
Oct 07, 2008, 02:52 PM
Oh yeah thanks for mentioning that Cheesedog.

and btw has anyone read 'American Shaolin'? I think the author made half that junk up, he even admits it (sort of) in the back.

Raja
Oct 08, 2008, 12:26 AM
Aikido. The most important thing it teaches is to be sensitive to the way your oponent moves. From here you can move onto any other martial art. Though I would reccomend Yoshokai styles versus the Aikikai or the other non-defensive soft styles.

If hitting things is more your style, go for Muay Thai, amazing stand up art. If you enjoy weapons training, try out Arnis/Kali/Escrima which is a stick and knife art. Other weapon arts that use nunchucks, sais or other such weapons just aren't practical.

wulfsun
Oct 09, 2008, 03:48 AM
Have you thought about the renegade side of JKD and it's off-shoots? There are also some styles of silat that still have a strong Chinese root.

silentassassin
Oct 09, 2008, 05:52 PM
Sambo!!! has every thing (standup and ground). forgot to mention that before.

olinek
Oct 09, 2008, 10:19 PM
Thanks for the suggestions people, have been busy but will loook into all this stuff asap.

Silentassassin, can you assure me I won't be discriminated against in a Sambo school? (I am polish harhar)

knuckledragger74
Oct 10, 2008, 11:09 AM
I train at an "mma gym" for lack of a better term. It is mma because my instructor is very accomplished at many arts. Standup is derived from boxing,savate, tang so doo and ground comes straight off the boat from brazil. We don't spar in a cage . We wear a traditional gi sept thru april , May to aug is t-shirt or rash guard. It is one hell of a good time.

silentassassin
Oct 10, 2008, 11:37 AM
I dont know, they should be cool. 8-)

olinek
Oct 26, 2008, 02:59 PM
I have been doing some research. Various factors such as price or location have eliminated certain possiblities.

One thing I have found that may be interesting is this. http://www.montrealsystema.com/ The classes are very cheap. They teach Systema, Moder Kempo Jujitsu and MMA .

In all honesty I have trouble taking a martial art developed by the Soviets seriously. But they have good package deals. Taking Ssstema is 400 a year, MKJ is 300 a year, MMA is 300 a year. Taking Systema and and MKJ is 475, and all 3 is 500 dollars. I have not that much interest in Systema but it seems taking all three is most reasonable since I am inderested in the MKJ, and MMA should be a good time for grappling.

This doesn't seem like a big school which is nice. It is close to my home also. I will go check this school out.

Does anyone have any experience in Systema or Kempo Jujitsu.

Perhaps Systema is not as silly as I think.

olinek
Oct 26, 2008, 07:47 PM
I have been doing some research on Systema. It appears I may have been wrong about it. It seems everything is taught in contact situations, without the bs of "grab my wrist, now I will flip you ok?".

Some of the vids on the site of the school training is even quite interesting. They go out and train knife defense in the woods.

Perhaps this is for me, taking the Systema and Kemp Jujitsu. I will definitely go check them out.

onelasttime
Oct 26, 2008, 10:45 PM
If you can find a traditional japanesse JiJitsu school you would probably like it since pre "Gracie BJJ" it had lots of strikes, joint locks and ground work. You couldnot pay me to take BJJ their are two many fake schools that shouldnot be in business. Aikido would be a good choice definately a long way from your back ground and even further away from MMA!

I like Judo and did it in college when I gave up my scholarship for good knee's past 30!LOL The pace is a bit slow and laid back though so it might not get your blood pumping. It definately is not hard to find places that are traditional but remember Judo is a modern sport not some ancient art. It was JuJitsu reguratated basicly to make a sport. In head to head combat it did beat out the best Jujitsu school in Japan a long time ago hence the reason it is taught to the Japanesse Police Force.

You can find good school that are very traditional and some that are very modern and western in their methods and attitudes so shop around.

If you can actualy find a real Israely to teach you Krav-Maga then it rocks but if it is from a video tape professor then just keep on walking!

Catch Wrestleing is kick ass if you can find a club in your area this is wrestleing as it was taught at the turn of the century and it is every bit as deadly, leathal and combat proven as anything that the Asia's have to compare with it. Modern Wrestleing is Catch Wrestleing with all the hard core submission moves and dangerious strikes removed etc..... to make them into safer sports that could be practiced at University by Scholar Athletes not the brutes that did Catch Wrestleing!

If you can find a boxing program in your area western boxing is about as good as it get's for punching speed and power, ducking and sliping punch's with out traping the hands and will teach your rythm and timeing and distance like nothing else will.

If you like acrobatics take an acrobatics class if you live in a big city or are at a major University they have class's you can take! Seriously!!! Why look for a fighting art based on a desire to do back flips? That is like trying to pick the love of your life by her like or dislike for piza? Once you get past that what else is left? Like wise once you get your back flip fix what are you left with?

silentassassin
Oct 26, 2008, 11:13 PM
500 a year is cheap for 3 MAs and its close to your house, you should definitely check it out. They usually let you try a day or two for free or some places have an option to pay a cheap price for the first month, see what they have.

Ashiro
Nov 08, 2008, 09:18 PM
Japanese ju jutsu. I wouldn't bother with the newer derivatives like judo or aikido as they're mainly cut down, softer versions of the traditional ju jutsu. BJJ is okay as its evolved a little from its judo roots but JJJ is the more complete of them all.