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View Full Version : Question? 52 Hand Blocks Fighting System does it work?



Balisong13
Aug 27, 2008, 05:14 PM
I recently came across a fighting system called 52 hand blocks and was very interested in the way that the approach combat and i was wondering if anyone here was familiar with it and if so, does it work? i have been studing for about 2 months in krav maga, jeet kun do, cfa, and boxing and was wondering if it would be of any benefit to add 52 hand blocks to my training. Any advice at all would be helpful so please let me know what your opinions on this fighting style are, but please provide reasons for any coments as i would like more than a simple yes or no to wheather or not this style is worth my time. thank you all in advanced and i look forward to reading your responses.

Journeyman
Aug 27, 2008, 07:48 PM
Also known as 'jailhouse rock' developed by black inmates at someplace I can't remember. A combination of vicious close quarters combat developed specifically for cramped alleys, jail cells, and urinals where attacks take place. Often flowing movements punctuated by elbow and fist strikes...it's a good 'functional' system

....but it's deadly. Use it properly and don't go showing off.

Hope that you won't need to use it ever. Always avoid combat when you can.

Welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around :)

Dave.cyco
Aug 27, 2008, 07:53 PM
...it's a good 'functional' system...but it's deadly. Use it properly and don't go showing off.

Hope that you won't need to use it ever. Always avoid combat when you can.

Welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around :)

I aslo bid you welcome, and entreat you to heed the wisdom of Demarcoa.

:)

Journeyman
Aug 27, 2008, 08:38 PM
I aslo bid you welcome, and entreat you to heed the wisdom of Demarcoa.

:)

Thanks man!

really the only way to go...

EvilOne
Aug 27, 2008, 10:11 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2S4BTja2Tk
Bang Bang Bang Bop Bop, Looks like a load of crap to me.......

chauinc
Aug 27, 2008, 10:27 PM
It looks like normal boxing but trademarked by black people.

Journeyman
Aug 28, 2008, 01:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2S4BTja2Tk
Bang Bang Bang Bop Bop, Looks like a load of crap to me.......

Alot of their work is actually joint locks and elbow strikes. They probably want to make you pay to tell you that though.

crazydan
Aug 28, 2008, 06:23 PM
yes it works. but ur not going to learn it unless you go to prison. whihc i hope u dont go to

Journeyman
Aug 28, 2008, 06:43 PM
yes it works. but ur not going to learn it unless you go to prison. whihc i hope u dont go to

Yeah but there are former prisoners willing to teach for little $$ unfortunately.

Ricaldr
Aug 31, 2008, 10:45 PM
The videos showed it to be boxing but i learned it was a trap and counter punch kind of art. I only seen a little bit of it and thought standing japanese jj and wing chung but more attractive then wingchung because the punches were boxing punches. I want to look further into it. I'd like to know a standing system. Going to the ground and getting asphault rashes stright up sucks.
Since i'm from NY and i think this was developed in harlem jail i'm an hour of its inception and i'm likely an hour away from its most sperited teachers. Unfortunitly i'm still -an hour away-

Ric

Cheeze_Baron
Sep 01, 2008, 02:38 AM
If you want to utilize an art the involves blocking with the forearms you should look up "crazy monkey defense", which is basically a modified peek a boo defense taken from boxing, it can be used for mma also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIhnPkPeAdE&feature=related

crazydan
Sep 01, 2008, 02:42 PM
Yeah but there are former prisoners willing to teach for little $$ unfortunately.

really? when i used to live in bad areas they wouldnt teach it to anyone. im 99% sure that all those videos you see on 52 hand blocks are from people that dont actually know what 52 is and just pretend to know what it is and are really just teaching dirty boxing mixed with boxing.

Journeyman
Sep 01, 2008, 03:09 PM
really? when i used to live in bad areas they wouldnt teach it to anyone. im 99% sure that all those videos you see on 52 hand blocks are from people that dont actually know what 52 is and just pretend to know what it is and are really just teaching dirty boxing mixed with boxing.

Yeah these ones are...but not to pretend I know stuff I don't know about but maybe in bad areas those guys wont teach it cause they want to preserve their advantage?
And true it is rare that you get 'the real stuff' but I think there are people out there teaching it for comparatively little $ considering how brutal it is.

crazydan
Sep 02, 2008, 04:36 PM
that is true. im just saying that the videos posted above are not 52s.

Journeyman
Sep 02, 2008, 04:39 PM
that is true. im just saying that the videos posted above are not 52s.

You're defenitely right!
That's just normal boxing maybe with some extra bling.

wulfsun
Sep 13, 2008, 03:51 PM
Eugene S. Robinson wrote a book titled FIGHT. Chapter 4 discusses Jailhouse Rock and Rock n Roll. Jailhouse is west coast and 52 blocks is east. You ask anybody about 52 blocks in California correction systems and you probably get nothing. Jailhouse was started by the Black Guerilla Family and Rock 'n roll by the Aryan Brotherhood. One uses elbows and kicks and the other uses holds and power punches to the joints and vital organs.

operator
Sep 14, 2008, 08:53 PM
Try this instead type this into you tube ( keysi system promo 2) at least you will see some of there system .
52 blocks videos show people doing pull ups and then slapping at each other. They really dont give any exsamples of there style. Unless you count the boxing thing which is boxing.
Lyle burly shows skull and cross bones at least. Stick with grappling arts and muay tai for striking.Google search bullsido this will help.

wulfsun
Sep 15, 2008, 01:50 AM
Keysi system is an off-shoot of JKD concepts; and I think you mean the bullshido site and their videos posted at youtube . Bullshido is both helpful and annoying at times , they waste more time crapping on well known styles and don't really question or examine the "new kids on the block".

dink
Sep 21, 2008, 07:53 AM
I've trained in 52 blocks with Lyte Burly in NYC.
Ive trained in kickboixng for 12 years and am a 3rd dan blackbelt.

52 blocks is very effective and not just at close range its about defence slipping,blocking,intercepting ,countering,footwork,deception.

It isnt the same as keysi or crazy monkey ,some shapes are similar though.
If you think its just boxing think again,look at boxing history see the phillyshell ,the crab,peek a boo and where they came from .

Check out Peter Jackson,Jack Johnson,Sam Langford,Archie Moore,Tyson,Mayweather and many more.

Please contact lyteburly.com for details on training in 52 blocks
I travelled over 3 thousand miles to train and was glad I did

LETS GO DEFENCE
http://www.themartialartscommunity.com/photos_gallery.php?ID=23

wulfsun
Sep 24, 2008, 12:47 AM
So you're guy in that Skull & bonez vs. Muay Thai vid ? Man that was some kind of kicking there dink:roll::roll::roll::roll:. About as real as the combat system that advocates break- dance fighting on ground :lol::lol::lol:

dink
Sep 24, 2008, 07:57 AM
No Im not that guy.
52 blocks is for REAL
E10 Ave B Tompkins Square Park NYC
Stop by and check it out
Breakdancing is related to 52 blocks but isnt used on the ground.Look at the top rock and uprock

wulfsun
Sep 25, 2008, 01:57 AM
You have "52 blocks" and west coast has "Jailhouse rock" son. No need to check anything out. ;)

dink
Sep 25, 2008, 03:40 AM
jailhouse,jailhouse rock,jailhouse boxing,52 blocks are different names for the same thing:wink:

lyteburly52
Sep 30, 2008, 08:00 PM
yes 52 is very effective there is alot of misconception about exactly what 52 is its roots lay in boxing the earlier forefathers jack johnson,joe gans, jersey joe walcott so can it be added to boxing it is boxing defense it is not offense i repeat not offense its all defense training how not to be hit slipping,ducking,blocking,interceptions,jabbing,fo otwork LGD

lyteburly52
Sep 30, 2008, 08:03 PM
yes 52 is very effective its roots lay in boxing the early forefathers of this style jjack johnson,joe gans,archie moore,walcott,eddie futch there are many misconceptions of 52 its all defense not offense i repeat its not offense it is defense the art of how not to be hit slipping,ducking,blocking,interceptions,footwork,h ead movement,feints if you need anymore info just reach out lyteburly52

USMC machine
Oct 01, 2008, 12:31 AM
No Im not that guy.
52 blocks is for REAL
E10 Ave B Tompkins Square Park NYC
Stop by and check it out
Breakdancing is related to 52 blocks but isnt used on the ground.Look at the top rock and uprock

When are you there?

dink
Oct 01, 2008, 12:41 PM
When are you there?
USMC Machine Lyte can be found at the park 9am -12 everday
Im back in the Uk now

lyteburly52
Oct 01, 2008, 02:22 PM
you can find me at tompkins square park everyday 9-12 at night i train from 10-12 i've read a few comments and there is alot of misconception you don't have to go to prison to learn that comment just makes it sound like every black man was born in jail not saying you said this but that like saying you have to go to china to learn kung-fu and this is why 52 is frowned upon because black men are frowned upon as gun holders who don't fight they just shoot each other when it was black men that hepl keep kung-fu alive in the seventies we walk around our hoods with ninja stars the whole bit and yet we talk of own thing and people say its a jail thing wing chun was a jail thing it was the art of rebels opposing the manchurians 52 revolutionize boxing before black men entered two men pummeled each outher until the one who could accept the most punishment wins boxing was on its way out as being to brutal black men enterd and brought stick and move it was a black trainer that started stick and move hit and don't be hit black men saved boxing with defense after that it was known as the sweet science LGD

SpartanKimura
Nov 12, 2008, 12:36 AM
I'm not too impressed with it, I've seen the same techniques taught with a better delivery system and by instructors with much better credentials.

lyteburly52
Nov 12, 2008, 12:44 AM
i hear your point but from what i see what 52 offers if others are teaching it they must not be doing to well there is a big lack of defense in mma fights especially stand up and concerning fist fighting because of the lack of defense they are either too tight hold there heads back while trying to swing close there eyes put there heads down all signs of lack of defense you cannot weild your offense with courage if your defense has no substance so this is what 52 offeres defensive confidence leading to a very confidence offense but like i said i understand what your saying there aren't alot of proficent 52 teachers good comment LYTEBURLY52

Kanik
Nov 17, 2008, 01:36 AM
I know I'm a bit late... but my two cents. I think Its a style that would work, and work well if you learnt it properly. Though against an incredibly good kicker, you'd have some problems, I know a guy that would break both your arms and then shatter a some ribs with one kick. And he's kicks are sooo goddamn fast, so against osmone like that, blocks arent enough, even if there is 52 of them. Hahahhaa "The best block, is no be there" - Miyagi Hahhahaha sweet.

dink
Nov 17, 2008, 07:25 AM
Defence is not just blocks but footwork,slipping,ducking,redirecting and of course using the jab as a defensive weapon so they cant get settled.
I would rather evade,than block a strong kick,but then again I'd rather block with my arms than my face or ribs
Evasive footwork is key to 52 against a kicker,and dont forget its not just defending all the day offence follows.
LGD

David43515
Nov 18, 2008, 05:33 AM
Hey, this goes out to the original poster. You say you`ve been training Krav Maga, boxing, JKD, and some other stuff for all of 2 monthes.....and now you want to add 52 to the mix. I`ve never trained 52 or any of the variants, but I`ve been impressed with what I`ve seen. (A strong boxing base, and footwork and body positioning that reminds me of Kali and Silat) It looks like it would work well.
BUT, AND THIS IS SOOOOO important...........nothing is gonna work for you until you devote some time to serious practice. And you can`t do that if you`re bouncing around from place to place and style to style each week. Pick ONE style or more imortantly ONE TEACHER that you feel like you can really learn from and stick with it for at least a year before you start adding stuff from other styles to the mix.
I`ve been training in martial arts since I was 8. That`s 33 years dude. Trust me when I tell you that you will understand things better, and faster, if you take them one at a time. Once you actually know something you`ll be able to see all kinds of similarities and differences and be able to appreciate them, but mixing it all up right away slows down your learning and produces people who know lots of meathods.......but they aren`t really any good at any of them. I`ve seen it happen so many times in the past.
I cross train in about 4 styles, and it`s great. But you need to have a base of somekind to build on.

Jonny...
Nov 19, 2008, 03:12 PM
I have no experience with this, (which I know is what you asked lol =P), but I sounds a lot to me like Muay Thai or Thai Boxing which I do myself! We have some devastating elbow and knee strikes that are extremely useful in close combat. So maybe if you cant find enough information on the 52 hand blocks training system you could definatly find information on Thaibo out there!! =]

billgetsstrong
Feb 25, 2009, 09:44 AM
Go to your local library and read a book simply called "fight".
The author goes on a fact finding mission to seek out the truth
of jailhouse rock and other things. Easy read maybee 30-45 minutes.
Jailhouse was not known to any of the real inmates or bikers who've been
incarcerated for long times. They said that actually it's all matter of just wailing the guy down fast as you can or use a weapon. no such thing as
jailhouse bs. It's do whatever you can to survive and nothing more.
They do have some groups who study anatomy to seek better places to stab and find nerves though. But there's no real jail style. I think a certian
book came out in the 80's with this bs for money and people bought into the urban legend. this book featured many styles in comparison to certain attacks. the applications of this book will get you hurt against a real fighter. Seriously. Besides prisoners wear manicles on hands and feet when moving about with guards. You cannot do all that slapping bs with
your limbs tied up. Besides no ones gonna tell you how to beat them when you're locked up with them. it ain't survival to do so. common sense guys.

dink
Feb 25, 2009, 01:17 PM
"Ghetto Blasters: Born in prison, raised in the 'hood, the deadly art of 52 Blocks is Brooklyn's baddest secret" by Douglas Century, Details magazine 19:9, pp 77-79, August 2001.

Century, Douglas: "Street Kingdom: Five Years Inside the Franklin Avenue Posse", 1999, Warner Books, Inc.,

Green, Thomas "Freeing the Afrikan Mind: the Role of Martial Arts in Contemporary African American Cultural Nationalism", essay featured in "Martial Arts in the Modern World"

Elbows are used when manacled ,and as for weapons the razor is spat from mouth to hand to be used along side the blocks

Stato, jailhouse, 52 is no urban legend

billgetsstrong
Feb 26, 2009, 07:16 AM
While a limited amount of elbows can be used one must remember that the hands are shackled to the waist. So you cannot be using those elbows seen in clips. I do not deny that one needs to protect oneself in any dangerous enviroment. More likely it's a toothbrush sharpened on the end that's used. I just don't buy into there being a secret style. That's for selling book's and dvd's. Just because one practices any moves for ones own protection does not make it a systemized martial art. It's just personal self defense. Boxing is good to know, no doubt. But the oldschool
boxers knew how to use hammerfists as well. This is what is sometimes called by many names in different areas. But hammering the collarbones is
a basic beginners technique in okinawan kempo. It is clearly practiced in the kata pinan nidan as the opening move against an attacker from the left side. Which incidentally is your weakest side. That's why the masters started all the forms off to the left side.

Anyone can practice hurting another person, but that doesn't make it a martial art. The old arts are systemized and teach principles and skills.
Use whatever works for you, but I say please learn the ways of peace
and love and harmony and foregiveness. We have to all learn to get along otherwise we're all extinct.

skinnyboy5
Mar 08, 2009, 09:56 PM
sounds pretty good

onelasttime
Mar 12, 2009, 10:26 PM
That is almost exactly what my Dad taught me and what I learned growing up in a community full of black men and women. My Dad was in the Army for 22 years or their abouts and he spent most of his time in various combat arm's as an enlisted man aka not an Officer. So I grew up slap boxing, break danceing and incorperated the same movements into my own fighting!!! I had no idea it was an offical system. My Dad was for a while an alternate on the US Army Olympic Boxing Team and many of his friends and fellow fighters where either Black or Purto Rican not a lot of white guys on the Army boxing team traditionaly and almost all of them where from various parts of New York!To this day I teach my boys to use their elboys and to trap and weave and bob and to get in close etc....

So I can say definatively that if all of the system is like what I have seen on youtube and various sights then yes it works and works well. I will say this though. Many of them are preaching the deffense side of it but I think it truly comes unto it's own when you are agressive and trying to finish your opponet. This is the style of fighting I used when I worked as a bouncer. While most of my training formal training that is was in TKD that was mostly for sport as it has very little use on the street or in a bar since high kicks are not practical in a bar setting and on the street it is just to kaotic to trust your life to only one foot onthe ground. I quickly realized that in close I had an advatage because of what I had been taught and few men really fight well in tight and even fewer can punch with speed or power in close. Almost no one is ready for elbos they are always watching your hands. So if itis what my Dad and my friends and I learned ont he street and from other kids Dad's then it is lethal if you want it to be and non-lethal if you want it to be. It really comes down to how much force you use and when you decide the guy has had enough.

I will say this though. I previewed one of the DVD's and I got tired of the word Nigger being used so much. Haveing grown up in an environment that was mostly black I understand it and it's many meaning but I still hate the use of it. In my opinion everytime a black man or woman use's the word it gives liscense to other to use it as well. Seeing how the origins of the word are stepped in hate beyound words it trooubles me to no end that it is so easy and quick to role of the tongues of those it was used to put down. Especialy when these same people that use the word dislike it so much when other's use it against them! I really do not think it add's anything to the material rather it takes away from it.

bodylifter
Mar 21, 2009, 05:51 PM
From the video it looks like ordinary boxing, but I'm not knocking it as I've never meet anyone who uses it or studies.

onelasttime
Mar 21, 2009, 09:12 PM
Pugalism is more then just ordinary boxing. Boxing minus Quens Burry Rules is leathal as hell. In fact Bruce Lee said on more then one occassion that he could easily train a Western Boxer to defeat any martial artist in no time flat. I am sure he was not going to teach them how to put both leg's behind their head or kick boards 10 feet in the air or some other non-sense. Most Martial Art's I know can not even win a street fight because they have no idea what to do with their hands first of all. Second they have no timeing and judge of distance. Third they are not used to comeing across a really good striker and have weak defense's to them especialy to the head. Most martialartist also have no ability to take damage. I can not count how many "Black Belts" I have seen handed their ass in a bag by someone that had no formal training at all and learned to fight on the street. Also few martialartist have a close in game when the opponet get's in close and ties up they have no way to deal with it.

While I love watcing a good MMA fight on TV most of them would have their ass handed to them. Going to the ground is the worst possable thing you can do in a street fight because if the guy get's a chance he or his friends will stomp you into the ground. Joint locks are fine if you intend to break the joint and end the fight but aside from that they are worthless. High kicks are worthless in a street fight unless you are fighting a complete rookie they only work within the guidlines of ruled sanctioned fights with the except for those case's where the guy is almost finished.

In fact if you want to see how worthless your particular martial art is lock yourself in a telaphone booth with a guy with a rubber knife or in a phone booth with a seasoned western style boxer and then go at it. Make sure you coat the knife with red lipstick on the blade's cutting surface. The way martial art's are taught and practiced in this country is almost a joke in terms of real self deffense. Martial Art's should be viewed more as sport then anything else. Now you do learn some things in martial art's that can be useful in a fight like how to punch and how to block and some good joint locks that are doable from the standing postion. The problem is that most schools do not spend enough time on heavy bag, sparing full contact includeing the head, no special wippy rules like how TKD does not allow punch's to the head, work on timeing,slipping punch's, bobing and weaveing etc................

In stead of refineing their technique and elimanateing that which does not work many art's insist on makeing things more complicated and adding fluff since this ensure's that their is always something else to learn etc........Instead of takeing what works from all art's and making it their own each one choose's to be different and do their own thing often re-inventiong the wheel!

In fact taking western styel boxing and it's training method's and adding in some trapping skills from JKD and some philapino knife and stick fighting and some western style wrestleing and one would have a system as good as anything the East has every produced with no fluff.

To be honest I hot over complicated systems as a rule even though I started martial arts at the ripe age of 4 years old. I have studied hard and soft styles and as self deffense goes most of them are functionaly worthless. Few of them ever teach their students how to handle the stress one encounters in a real fight. Ihave seen grown men piss their pants!

In fact really keeping things simple and doing them until you can not think straight is the best way to teach selfdeffense but no one would pay for that longterm and you would never be able to make it into an art.

In fact Martial Art's are about as worthless in todays world as sword fighting techniques that Night's in Armour used in midevil Europe. If someone cannot learn to completely and total deffend themselfs from blunt object's,kinifes,guns and fist's and kick's in onemonth or less then their style or system is worthless bullshit!

In fact in 30 days time I could make someone into a formidable advasary with their body,firearms,knives and stick's. So many people both on this site and on other's act like martial Art's are the shit and like they have a chance in hell of stoping 3 16 year punk kids armed with knives or even just bricks from takeing their wallet but for the most part they have no chance in hell! First you have to have the mind set of a punk kid or billy bad ass not just the look of one. Second you have to be proactive not reactionary. Third you have to have a system that is so simple and so well in grained in you that you do not need to think about what you are going to do. Fourth you have to be willing to do what ever it takes to survive.

I have seen it so many times. The guy that goes to MMA class 5 night's a week for 2 hours or more each night.........Goes to a bar one night with old college roomates that are in town and next thing you know he is on the ground being stomped to death by 5 guys until the security guys manage to get in their and break it up.

I would be more then Happy to take you to the North side of Flint and drop you off after sunset. If you not darker then a papper bag you will have to fight your way out. The police do not make it that way very often so if you call 911 maybe 2 hours after you call they might show up. I would put almost anyone of those gang banging kids up against almost any black belt and feel sure that the black belt would not walk out of the ring in one piece! These kids are not going to the strip mall TKD class they are doing stuff that looks like "Plain Old Boxing" on the side of the street. They are not wearing pad's when they get into a fight. If they want to make it a bit safer then they slap box so only their pride get hurt.

I have seen some good formaly trained martial artist but all of them grew up fighting on the street so they really did not learn to fight at class.

Also on some show they had on Discovery Channel about the science of martial art's out of all the art's the Western Boxer's had the hardest hitting blow's and it was not by a small margin it was a huge margin. The martial artist hit like girls by comparison to the western boxer's.

The best book I have read on deffense is the Army Field manaul on hand to hand combat. The moves are simple and are designed to be used against someone with a rifle or a knife or a stick. They are for the most part single moves that take the person down or kill them fast. They all involve finishing off the opponet quickly and quitely. If these movements alone where trained often once could be very proficient with them. Nothing esoteric or mysterious nothing mystical. Their is nothing mystical about bashing in a guys head before he can bash your's in!

Normaly I do not take offense or get offended by peoples opinions of Western Boxing or Western Wrestling. I do though get tired of Martial Artist's that are usualy push over's acting like they have any experince fighting on the street or in combat where their life is actualy on the line! These types the Dojo Hero are quick to give advice and offer opinions not haveing earned the right to do so unless we are talking about fighting in a dojo against your drinking buddie or some pimple face school girl!!! I think a person that has been in prison and been some fights in prison might just know a bit more about what works in real life then a Dojo hero! These guys where not fighting because Jimi stole Yung Lee's rice cake! I mean they are trying hard not to get gang raped in the shower and not to get staped in the back while eating or playing basket ball. Stop and think about that some time. The art you are putting down is used every single day in prison's across America and you are going to say "It looks like regular boxing to me" like that makes it less effective some how then sitting int he lotus postion and meditateing all day about how you wish buba would not rape you every night in the shower?

That's right I am opinion nated as hell. I think results are all the counts and this is a system that is proven in the nastiest prison's one the meanest toughest people on the planet. These are not Boy Scouts putting this stuff to the test we are talking gang banger's drug dealer's, murder's, guys that want to rape other guys etc.......Stop and think about that. What other system is more proven that that. Their is not a calm day in prison. Sure Krav Maga might be combat tested but how often do you think the IDF is going fist to cuff with terroist???? My guess is not very often since bullet's, rocket's and other weapons reach further and hit harder and give you stand off. This is 52 Block's or Jail House Rocks is used every day across this country since the days of slavery up to today! That is a lot of combat time! I do not think anyone was calling it a sport or some esoteric study of main kind through motion or any such non-sense it is being marketed as a primarily black selfdeffense system that is entirely American just like Jazz! It roots being in African martial art's that the slaves brought with them but being isolated in the penial system it developed into it's own practical deffense system!

I am sorry if I offended some but that is me! I call bullshit when ever I think I see it! For the most part most martial artist's are nothing but bullshit smoke and mirror's one a small number are actualy worth a shit on the street in a real fight when people intend to hurt you or kill you!

skinnyboy5
Mar 29, 2009, 05:39 PM
Pugalism is more then just ordinary boxing. Boxing minus Quens Burry Rules is leathal as hell. In fact Bruce Lee said on more then one occassion that he could easily train a Western Boxer to defeat any martial artist in no time flat. I am sure he was not going to teach them how to put both leg's behind their head or kick boards 10 feet in the air or some other non-sense. Most Martial Art's I know can not even win a street fight because they have no idea what to do with their hands first of all. Second they have no timeing and judge of distance. Third they are not used to comeing across a really good striker and have weak defense's to them especialy to the head. Most martialartist also have no ability to take damage. I can not count how many "Black Belts" I have seen handed their ass in a bag by someone that had no formal training at all and learned to fight on the street. Also few martialartist have a close in game when the opponet get's in close and ties up they have no way to deal with it.

While I love watcing a good MMA fight on TV most of them would have their ass handed to them. Going to the ground is the worst possable thing you can do in a street fight because if the guy get's a chance he or his friends will stomp you into the ground. Joint locks are fine if you intend to break the joint and end the fight but aside from that they are worthless. High kicks are worthless in a street fight unless you are fighting a complete rookie they only work within the guidlines of ruled sanctioned fights with the except for those case's where the guy is almost finished.

In fact if you want to see how worthless your particular martial art is lock yourself in a telaphone booth with a guy with a rubber knife or in a phone booth with a seasoned western style boxer and then go at it. Make sure you coat the knife with red lipstick on the blade's cutting surface. The way martial art's are taught and practiced in this country is almost a joke in terms of real self deffense. Martial Art's should be viewed more as sport then anything else. Now you do learn some things in martial art's that can be useful in a fight like how to punch and how to block and some good joint locks that are doable from the standing postion. The problem is that most schools do not spend enough time on heavy bag, sparing full contact includeing the head, no special wippy rules like how TKD does not allow punch's to the head, work on timeing,slipping punch's, bobing and weaveing etc................

In stead of refineing their technique and elimanateing that which does not work many art's insist on makeing things more complicated and adding fluff since this ensure's that their is always something else to learn etc........Instead of takeing what works from all art's and making it their own each one choose's to be different and do their own thing often re-inventiong the wheel!

In fact taking western styel boxing and it's training method's and adding in some trapping skills from JKD and some philapino knife and stick fighting and some western style wrestleing and one would have a system as good as anything the East has every produced with no fluff.

To be honest I hot over complicated systems as a rule even though I started martial arts at the ripe age of 4 years old. I have studied hard and soft styles and as self deffense goes most of them are functionaly worthless. Few of them ever teach their students how to handle the stress one encounters in a real fight. Ihave seen grown men piss their pants!

In fact really keeping things simple and doing them until you can not think straight is the best way to teach selfdeffense but no one would pay for that longterm and you would never be able to make it into an art.

In fact Martial Art's are about as worthless in todays world as sword fighting techniques that Night's in Armour used in midevil Europe. If someone cannot learn to completely and total deffend themselfs from blunt object's,kinifes,guns and fist's and kick's in onemonth or less then their style or system is worthless bullshit!

In fact in 30 days time I could make someone into a formidable advasary with their body,firearms,knives and stick's. So many people both on this site and on other's act like martial Art's are the shit and like they have a chance in hell of stoping 3 16 year punk kids armed with knives or even just bricks from takeing their wallet but for the most part they have no chance in hell! First you have to have the mind set of a punk kid or billy bad ass not just the look of one. Second you have to be proactive not reactionary. Third you have to have a system that is so simple and so well in grained in you that you do not need to think about what you are going to do. Fourth you have to be willing to do what ever it takes to survive.

I have seen it so many times. The guy that goes to MMA class 5 night's a week for 2 hours or more each night.........Goes to a bar one night with old college roomates that are in town and next thing you know he is on the ground being stomped to death by 5 guys until the security guys manage to get in their and break it up.

I would be more then Happy to take you to the North side of Flint and drop you off after sunset. If you not darker then a papper bag you will have to fight your way out. The police do not make it that way very often so if you call 911 maybe 2 hours after you call they might show up. I would put almost anyone of those gang banging kids up against almost any black belt and feel sure that the black belt would not walk out of the ring in one piece! These kids are not going to the strip mall TKD class they are doing stuff that looks like "Plain Old Boxing" on the side of the street. They are not wearing pad's when they get into a fight. If they want to make it a bit safer then they slap box so only their pride get hurt.

I have seen some good formaly trained martial artist but all of them grew up fighting on the street so they really did not learn to fight at class.

Also on some show they had on Discovery Channel about the science of martial art's out of all the art's the Western Boxer's had the hardest hitting blow's and it was not by a small margin it was a huge margin. The martial artist hit like girls by comparison to the western boxer's.

The best book I have read on deffense is the Army Field manaul on hand to hand combat. The moves are simple and are designed to be used against someone with a rifle or a knife or a stick. They are for the most part single moves that take the person down or kill them fast. They all involve finishing off the opponet quickly and quitely. If these movements alone where trained often once could be very proficient with them. Nothing esoteric or mysterious nothing mystical. Their is nothing mystical about bashing in a guys head before he can bash your's in!

Normaly I do not take offense or get offended by peoples opinions of Western Boxing or Western Wrestling. I do though get tired of Martial Artist's that are usualy push over's acting like they have any experince fighting on the street or in combat where their life is actualy on the line! These types the Dojo Hero are quick to give advice and offer opinions not haveing earned the right to do so unless we are talking about fighting in a dojo against your drinking buddie or some pimple face school girl!!! I think a person that has been in prison and been some fights in prison might just know a bit more about what works in real life then a Dojo hero! These guys where not fighting because Jimi stole Yung Lee's rice cake! I mean they are trying hard not to get gang raped in the shower and not to get staped in the back while eating or playing basket ball. Stop and think about that some time. The art you are putting down is used every single day in prison's across America and you are going to say "It looks like regular boxing to me" like that makes it less effective some how then sitting int he lotus postion and meditateing all day about how you wish buba would not rape you every night in the shower?

That's right I am opinion nated as hell. I think results are all the counts and this is a system that is proven in the nastiest prison's one the meanest toughest people on the planet. These are not Boy Scouts putting this stuff to the test we are talking gang banger's drug dealer's, murder's, guys that want to rape other guys etc.......Stop and think about that. What other system is more proven that that. Their is not a calm day in prison. Sure Krav Maga might be combat tested but how often do you think the IDF is going fist to cuff with terroist???? My guess is not very often since bullet's, rocket's and other weapons reach further and hit harder and give you stand off. This is 52 Block's or Jail House Rocks is used every day across this country since the days of slavery up to today! That is a lot of combat time! I do not think anyone was calling it a sport or some esoteric study of main kind through motion or any such non-sense it is being marketed as a primarily black selfdeffense system that is entirely American just like Jazz! It roots being in African martial art's that the slaves brought with them but being isolated in the penial system it developed into it's own practical deffense system!

I am sorry if I offended some but that is me! I call bullshit when ever I think I see it! For the most part most martial artist's are nothing but bullshit smoke and mirror's one a small number are actualy worth a shit on the street in a real fight when people intend to hurt you or kill you!

I read that whole post Great post

dink
Apr 02, 2009, 06:14 AM
Lyte Burly has a dvd out explaining and showing connections between 52 and boxing

kingshadowwolf
Apr 02, 2009, 06:04 PM
Your making a very broad judgement on martial arts in general and there paractioners...today
Older practioners who still train old school are still very lethal with there martial arts
And if done right any move can be good it just has to be trained properly
Yes most martial arts have high kick that will get you killed in a fight i in fact always tell my students to never kick above the shin in a fight because it will put you in danger....But that being said you cant tell me that is crocop gets in a fight thta his high kick wont end that shit in the first few moments